What do you think about the "United Church of God"?

by tia.dalma 30 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • TTWSYF
    TTWSYF

    There are a few churches that have about the same right:wrong ratio as JWs. Unitarian Universalists, United Church of God, Christadelphians, etc.

    Is having 10 things right and 100,000 things wrong a good thing? The way I read this post seemed like you were suggesting that the WTS is not a destructive cult.

    Don't bother; there is no "true" church, only true followers. No group leads to salvation and no group has it right.

    I disagree on part because scripture does speak specifically and explitcitly of the church that Jesus started that was built on peter and the apostles and has been in existence for some 2,000 years. I agree that there are true followers and no one group leads to salvation as that can be found in no other than Jesus Christ, or at least that's what the bible says.

    respectfully,

    dc

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento
    I'm actually studying thru much of thier material. They appear to have a good working foundation when it come to explaining things about the feast days and holy days that true Christians should be following. They also give wonderful explanations as to why theses days are celebrated in relation to man's salvation.

    As per Paul, one man makes one day special, another doesn't, that is up to them, all thatis done, is to be done for Our Lord.

    In other words, it's not what tha date is about our what it used to be, it is what YOU do on it and WHO you give honor too.

    They have what I believe to be a keen insight into the scriptures, for instance, the discrepancy regarding when Christ was to celebrate the passover during the institution of the Lord's Evening Meal was greatly cleared up for me. The Jews no longer followed the traditions of old when it came to keeping time. Instead of counting as God had prescribed, the day begining at sunset, they were following the traditions of Rome by begining their day at sunrise, reason why the discrepancy exist even today. Witnesses as well as those from the previous followers of the WCG slated that day as Sunday evening sundown, this year. Traditional Jews associated the Passover of Monday, 24hrs. later. Because the timing never changed from those ancient times, the discrepancy continues to exist. It was the same confusion during Jesus day, as well.

    You need to read more and from OTHER sources.

    Other beliefs I think they have correct are about the fallacy of Christ being crucified on Friday. Jesus statement regarding being in the heart of the earth for 3 days and 3 nights makes the Good Friday killing of the Christ a fallacy. The Sabbath that was being spoken of was not the traditional weekly Sabbath, begining at sunset Friday to sunset Saturday, but was an Annual Sabbath that was not dependent of it falling on traditional weekly Sabbath. The calendar the Jews were following was not like we follow today. That annual Sabbath was defined as a Great Sabbath in scripture. All there information, books, videos and others can be down loaded on line at no charge, whatsoever. Or you can request hard copies of thier materials in the form of books and DVD's, also without charge. They have helped me to understand my Bible in ways, no Jehovah's Witness ever has.

    No where does the bibel say 3 days and 3 nights, it says on the 3rd day he was raised.

    Jewish 3rd day.

    If you want to be sure about that ( time lines in 1st century Palestine), ask a Jewish historian or bible scholar.

  • prophecor
    prophecor

    38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.

    39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

    40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

    41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

    42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

  • undercover
    undercover

    Their website is kinda scary.

    Scary like the WTS site, that is...

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Prophecor:

    Matthew:

    62 The next day, that is, after the day of Preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered before Pilate 63 and said, “Sir, we remember what that impostor said while he was still alive, ‘After three days I will rise again.’ 64 Therefore command the tomb to be made secure until the third day; otherwise his disciples may go and steal him away, and tell the people, ‘He has been raised from the dead,’ and the last deception would be worse than the first.” 65 Pilate said to them, “You have a guard t of soldiers; go, make it as secure as you can.” u 66 So they went with the guard and made the tomb secure by sealing the stone.

    Mark:

    42 When evening had come, and since it was the day of Preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, 43 Joseph of Arimathea, a respected member of the council, who was also himself waiting expectantly for the kingdom of God, went boldly to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. 44 Then Pilate wondered if he were already dead; and summoning the centurion, he asked him whether he had been dead for some time. 45 When he learned from the centurion that he was dead, he granted the body to Joseph. 46 Then Joseph l bought a linen cloth, and taking down the body, m wrapped it in the linen cloth, and laid it in a tomb that had been hewn out of the rock. He then rolled a stone against the door of the tomb. 47 Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses saw where the body n was laid.

    The Resurrection of Jesus

    (Mt 28:1–10; Lk 24:1–12; Jn 20:1–10)

    16 When the sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him. 2 And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb. 3 They had been saying to one another, “Who will roll away the stone for us from the entrance to the tomb?” 4 When they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had already been rolled back. 5 As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man, dressed in a white robe, sitting on the right side; and they were alarmed. 6 But he said to them, “Do not be alarmed; you are looking for Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has been raised; he is not here. Look, there is the place they laid him. 7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter that he is going ahead of you to Galilee; there you will see him, just as he told you.” 8 So they went out and fled from the tomb, for terror and amazement had seized them; and they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid. a

    Luke:

    The Burial of Jesus

    (Mt 27:57–61; Mk 15:42–47; Jn 19:38–42)

    50 Now there was a good and righteous man named Joseph, who, though a member of the council, 51 had not agreed to their plan and action. He came from the Jewish town of Arimathea, and he was waiting expectantly for the kingdom of God. 52 This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. 53 Then he took it down, wrapped it in a linen cloth, and laid it in a rock-hewn tomb where no one had ever been laid. 54 It was the day of Preparation, and the sabbath was beginning. o 55 The women who had come with him from Galilee followed, and they saw the tomb and how his body was laid. 56 Then they returned, and prepared spices and ointments.

    On the sabbath they rested according to the commandment.

    The Resurrection of Jesus

    (Mt 28:1–10; Mk 16:1–8; Jn 20:1–10)

    24 But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, taking the spices that they had prepared. 2 They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, 3 but when they went in, they did not find the body. a 4 While they were perplexed about this, suddenly two men in dazzling clothes stood beside them. 5 The women b were terrified and bowed their faces to the ground, but the men c said to them, “Why do you look for the living among the dead? He is not here, but has risen. d 6 Remember how he told you, while he was still in Galilee, 7 that the Son of Man must be handed over to sinners, and be crucified, and on the third day rise again.” 8 Then they remembered his words, 9 and returning from the tomb, they told all this to the eleven and to all the rest. 10 Now it was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the other women with them who told this to the apostles. 11 But these words seemed to them an idle tale, and they did not believe them. 12 But Peter got up and ran to the tomb; stooping and looking in, he saw the linen cloths by themselves; then he went home, amazed at what had happened. e

    John:

    In John Christ says he will raise his own body in 3 days:

    19 Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 The Jews then said, “This temple has been under construction for forty-six years, and will you raise it up in three days?” 21 But he was speaking of the temple of his body. 22 After he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this; and they believed the scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken.

  • prophecor
    prophecor

    Hi PSacramento. Are you making a point about the Sabbath, or Christ resurrecting himself? My issue was with the 72 hour window of time that Christ described that his body would be dead, could never fit the proposed scenario of him dying on Friday evening and alive on Sunday morning. Jews counted time from sunset to sunet. As its believed of traditional Christianity, Friday night to Saturday night would leave only one day and two nights. Friday night, Saturday, the only full 24 day, and Sunday morning.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    He rose on the 3rd Day.

    An example:

    Christ was dead at three o’clock on Friday, they had before six o’clock, three hours to bury Him. After going through the red tape with the Romans it took less than an hour. The Jewish reckoning of time is found in the Jewish Talmud and the Babylonian Jerusalem Talmud (the commentaries of the Jews), said any part, an “onan”, any part of the day is considered a full day. On Friday before six o'clock by Jewish reckoning, any minute was considered one day and one night. From Friday night at six o'clock to Saturday at six o'clock, was another day and another night. From Saturday night to Sunday was a third day.
    Thus, Jesus was in the grave part of Friday (a whole “natural day”), through all of Saturday (the second day), and from Saturday at sunset a part of Sunday (the third day). Thus, it is likely that the part of the day (Friday) on which Jesus was crucified, the entire day He was in the grave (Saturday), and the part of the day on which He rose again (Sunday), estimated as entire days. The concept of three days would be an idiom, not necessarily meaning 3 full 24- hour periods.

    and here:

    The solution is simple when we learn that according to Jewish custom any part of a day, however small, is included as part of a full day.1 "Since the Jews reckoned part of a day as a full day, the 'three days and three nights' could permit a Friday crucifixion."2 This phenomena is exemplified in scripture in the book of Esther. "Go, assemble all the Jews who are found in Susa, and fast for me; do not eat or drink for three days, night or day. I and my maidens also will fast in the same way," ( Esther 4:16 ). Then, in Esther 5:1 it says, "Now it came about on the third day that Esther put on her royal robes and stood in the inner court of the king’s palace in front of the king’s rooms, and the king was sitting on his royal throne in the throne room, opposite the entrance to the palace." We can see that even though the three days and nights had not been completed, Esther went in to see the King on the third day even though she said to fast for three days and nights. We see that "on the third day" is equivalent to "after three days."

    Additionally, Mark 8:31 says, "And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again." Yet, 1 Cor. 15:4 says, "and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures." Also, Luke 24:5-7 , "and as the women were terrified and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, 'Why do you seek the living One among the dead? He is not here, but He has risen. Remember how He spoke to you while He was still in Galilee, saying that the Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.'" Here we can see that "after three days" is equivalent to mean "on the third day."

  • prophecor
    prophecor

    How is Christ statement regarding Jonah to be understood in this light?

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    prophecor,

    That is for YOU as a believer to decide.

    I am not suggesting you take what I say, I am just showing that there are different opinions and interpretations.

    Christ may have been explaning what would happen in a way that the Pharisees would understand that significance, much like his parable of the bad tenants that kill the owner's Son.

    What is clear is that, according to him, his apostles and Paul, He rose on the 3rd day and that day was Sunday.

    What is clear is that he died the day before the Sabbath.

    Beyond that, itis up to the individual to reconcile.

    The key element is this though:

    Christ rose on the 3rd day and His ressurrection means eternal life for Us all.

  • Alfred
    Alfred

    Mad Sweeney.... wow! that video really had me floored!... there should be a separate thread on it... the similarities between this "radio minitry" and the WT are numerous! pretty scary stuff!

    I need to watch it a second time and take some notes...

    thanks for posting it

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