No, that has nothing to with my user name. Try again.
yeah right MaZO your known as a troll on a few forums going under different names, a bit of a nutter actually.
JWs and the Family Unit - Calling Maze to defend assertions
by Retrovirus 61 Replies latest watchtower bible
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fresia
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Black Sheep
No, that has nothing to with my user name. Try again.
Another lie. You expect us to believe you. You want to polish the WT's cup. But you just can't help yourself. You have to lie. Why bother?
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/210066/1/Apostates-and-public-interest
In all my conversations with others discussing Jehovah's Witnesses teachings, people always make up their own minds without any outside influence, even on the internet. For example, I was recently talking to this gentlemen here (hard-core atheist). Some of the conversation went down as follows;
HoustonBelief - Insight on the Scriptures pp. 448-450 Chronology Bible Chronology and Secular History
GiordanoBruno: Oh great, here we go. All comments below directed to the author of the quoted text.
Maze: "Concern is often expressed over the need to try to “harmonize” or “reconcile” the Biblical account with the chronology found in ancient secular records."We don't need to trash your reputation. You do it to yourself ......... and your church ......... You're as bad as my family. All little Goody Two Shoes until they have to defend their church leaders, then they morph into compulsive liars and forget every inconvenient rule and doctrine that gets in their way.
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Maze
The proof: "U.S. Religious Landscape Survey 2008" by The Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life surveyed 35,000 people and presents findings on divorce/separation rates. (http://religions.pewforum.org/reports as at April 20 2008) The following graph from the report shows the Witness rate of 14% was slightly above the U.S. average of 12%.
The Pew Forum regularly publishes information on their website, open for everyone to review AND they publish HOW they got that information as well. They are a legitimate, scientific source and even the WTBTS uses them sometimes to show that JW's are the fastest growing religion (although they have the lowest retention rate).
There's over 310 million people in the United States. There's 1,178,349 Witnesses in the United States. Interviewing 35,000 random people doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Statistically, it's highly unlikely one of Jehovah's Witnesses was even contacted.
The vast majority of divorces in Jehovah's Organization (where both marriage partners are Jehovah's Witnesses) fall into two categories.
1. A spouse turns their back on Jehovah and their family out of selfish motives.
2. Young persons raised as Jehovah's Witnesses ignore counsel in the Bible and Bible based publications and get married before they are mature enough to shoulder the responsibilities of marriage.
yp chap. 30 p. 236 Am I Ready for Marriage?
Why do so many young marriages fail? The answer to this may have a strong bearing on determining whether you are ready for marriage or not.
In thirty years of observations, I can count the number of divorces on one hand where it involved mature individuals that remained in Jehovah's Organization.You do know that most religions don't mind that children leave their church when they are old enough. In the US and the EU, children have the RIGHT to choose their own religion, the WTBTS curtails that right by placing heavy sanctions upon any display of disloyalty to the organization. I don't know of any atheist (there might be a few but the vast majority) that would not allow their children to go to a religious service. Most interested parents do encourage a cultural experience of several religions and if the child finds something that they want, very few parents would get in the way of that.
No, not all parents inculcate multiculturalism in their children. Many people are Objectivists:
http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=10249
Multiculturalism's War on Education
It is a gross misconception to view multiculturalism as an effort to enrich education. By reshaping the curriculum, the purveyors of "diversity" in the classroom calculatedly seek to prevent students from grasping the objective value to human life of Western culture--a culture whose magnificent achievements have brought man from mud huts to moon landings.
Multiculturalism is no boon to education, but an agent of anti-Western ideology.A question for you: do you think it is morally correct to allow children to be baptized and let them agree verbally to give up their rights to freedom of religion at an age that they are highly influenced and susceptible to do whatever it is that they need to do to be accepted by peers, parents and people in authority? Those kids are having sex, babies, smoke and do drugs just to belong or please, why is locking in their religion until they either die or get rejected by everybody they know acceptable just to belong or please?
A person should get baptized when they're mature enough to know right from wrong.
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Maze
yeah right MaZO your known as a troll on a few forums going under different names, a bit of a nutter actually.
What forums? Fresia and Black Sheep chime in with a bunch of off-topic, unrelated gibberish and accuse me of being a "troll." Too funny... Trolls, like stalkers are always oblivious to their anti-social behavior. It may help to read about your condition. You can start with wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_Internet
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion. -
OUTLAW
It's true.
I now have a chicken named Alice.
LOL!!..
...............
...OUTLAW -
jwfacts
I shudder to enter this conversation because of the way Maze presents so many irrelevant or unsupported assertions. Anyway ...
What you highlight Maze is the Watchtower's double speak. They say in one magazine how important the family unit is, but then another one how you must shun a child that gets disfellowshipped for having a different religious viewpoint. Sure they can say they support the family unit (as does every religion, or even government programs) but the fact is that by making the organisation more important than the family they undermine it.
You also mentioned that the Watchtower supports being in subjection to the government. Yet again double speak. They are only in subjection when convenient. But they will not voting even when compulsory or they will lie to the government, such as the Bulgarian government to keep their religious status.
Jehovah's Witnesses don't treat the world with contempt
How can you say that, when the magazines are filled with quotes such as the following.
"The majority of people alive are alienated by God and controlled by the Devil. While some contact with worldly people is unavoidable-at work, at school, and otherwise-we must be vigilant so as to keep from being sucked back into the death-dealing atmosphere of this world. Let the world go along in its way, reaping its bad fruitage in the form of broken homes, illegitimate births, sexually transmitted diseases, such as AIDS, and countless other emotional and physical woes." Watchtower 1987 September 15 p.12 Breathing This World's "Air" Is Death-Dealing!
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mamalove
I love it how supposed JW's constantly quote WT articles. When will they ever have a single idea of their own? It makes reading any JW's posts on here quite boring. I want some thoughts of their own. That would be far more thought provoking. Maze, why are you on a non-JW website anyway?
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GLTirebiter
There's over 310 million people in the United States. There's 1,178,349 Witnesses in the United States. Interviewing 35,000 random people doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Statistically, it's highly unlikely one of Jehovah's Witnesses was even contacted.
That is not the case, as taught in every introductory class on statistics.
If there are 1.178 million witnesses in a population of 310 million, 0.38% are witnesses and 99.62% are not. A random selection of 35,000 persons including no witnesses, as you suggest, occurs with probability of 0.9962^35000 = 1.35x10^-58, about one chance in 7,430,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. That's a lot of zeros; compared to those odds buying one lottery ticket is a sure thing!
In fact, the Pew survey included 215 Jehovah’s Witnesses. Their survey methodology is sound, and they published that as well as the questions and the results for all the world to see. Their report shows witnesses are nearly average in their marriage and divorce/separation rate, while being much lower than average for "living with a partner" (outside of marriage).
If you're looking for the religion with the best track record for marrying and staying married, the verdict is clear: Hindus. According to Pew, they are the most likely to be married, and the least likely to divorce or live as non marital partners--by considerable margins in every case.
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Maze
That is not the case, as taught in every introductory class on statistics.
If there are 1.178 million witnesses in a population of 310 million, 0.38% are witnesses and 99.62% are not. A random selection of 35,000 persons including no witnesses, as you suggest, occurs with probability of 0.9962^35000 = 1.35x10^-58, about one chance in 7,430,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. That's a lot of zeros; compared to those odds buying one lottery ticket is a sure thing!
In fact, the Pew survey included 215 Jehovah’s Witnesses. Their survey methodology is sound, and they published that as well as the questions and the results for all the world to see. Their report shows witnesses are nearly average in their marriage and divorce/separation rate, while being much lower than average for "living with a partner" (outside of marriage).
If you're looking for the religion with the best track record for marrying and staying married, the verdict is clear: Hindus. According to Pew, they are the most likely to be married, and the least likely to divorce or live as non marital partners--by considerable margins in every case.
http://religions.pewforum.org/pdf/report-religious-landscape-study-full.pdf
The questionnaire is as follows.
Question: Are you currently married, living with a partner, divorced, separated, widowed or have you never been married?
This doesn't necessarily take into account marriages formed in Jehovah's Organization. A person could have been divorced prior to becoming one of Jehovah's Witnesses. 215 Jehovah’s Witnesses out of 7 million isn't accurate.
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Retrovirus
Hi again Maze,
As to the Pew survey, GL Tirebiter has provided the needed refresher on statistics. I notice that you didn't address the misuse of stats in the wt as quoted from jwfacts. So by the evidence we'll agree that jw marriages do not have lower divorce rates than the average of "worldly" marriages.
You say without any support
The vast majority of divorces in Jehovah's Organization (where both marriage partners are Jehovah's Witnesses) fall into two categories.
1. A spouse turns their back on Jehovah and their family out of selfish motives.
2. Young persons raised as Jehovah's Witnesses ignore counsel in the Bible and Bible based publications and get married before they are mature enough to shoulder the responsibilities of marriage
Setting aside that the first point presumes guilt (who are you to judge motives?), this is all irrelevant. It does nothing to demonstrate that the jw religion supports the family unit.
No, not all parents inculcate multiculturalism in their children
Sigh. Where did you get the idea that exposure to religious beliefs, or tolerance of another's beliefs is multiculturism? Please check a disctionary or here. And now let's return to topic.
A person should get baptized when they're mature enough to know right from wrong
A person should get baptised when s/he is ready to make a lifetime spiritual commitment which is at least as profound as commitment to a marriage, yes? Yet in the same post you are concerned about marriages contracted by immature people. So it follows that until a person has the maturity to be a committed marriage partner they should delay baptism, right?
Now, if an immature child is baptised and subsequently changes their spiritual beliefs how can it be right to shun them? How is that not harmful to the family unit?
I'd also be grateful if you addressed the questions I asked earlier, namely
1. Can a jw parent allow their child freedom to choose their religion?
2. You say you know many jw's with UBMs who respect their partners' beliefs. Does this respect mean that they don't persistently try to change those beliefs? If they didn't try, wouldn't they be "bloodguilty"?
Look forward to your reply.
Also, Thanks for the great quote, jwfacts!
Retro
