New Believers, Studying.

by cupcakekourtney88 73 Replies latest jw friends

  • Lily Pie
    Lily Pie

    Cupcake Courtney are you interested in God and learning about the bible? Or are you interested in becoming more involved with your familys religion for the sake of your family?

    Jesus said I am the way, the truth, the life no one comes to the father except by me. John14

    He also said "I am the door of the sheep... If anyone enters by me he will be saved...." John Ch10

    You need to seek Jesus first. Then maybe have a think about the possibility of a supernatural God. Are your prayers being answered? Does it seem like God is trying to tell you something? Have you tried out the supernatual powers of grace and faith? Jehovah's Witnesses don't have any of it, because they do not magnify Jesus. They magnify a man lead organisation.

    They also suggest that the rank and file believer does not have access to the Holy Spirit. This is because if everyone had the Holy Spirit than there would be no purpose for an organisation. The Bible says 'Don't you know that you are God's temple and that the spirit of God dwells in you?" 1Corin3:16 Really? What is it like to have the Holy Spirit live in you? Back in the OT the Isrealites used to carry the Holy Spirit around in an ark everywhere, because they needed it for success....it was a precarious business. Now God lives in us. WOW! This is clearly going to be a supernatural experience and give us amazing power. Yes yes yes!

    The fastest growing Christian denominations are the Charismatic ones. You need to do more research.

    If you are not interested in God at all, well maybe you should listen to the arguments for atheism, because that is far better for you than Witnessing.

    Lily Pie

  • Witness My Fury
    Witness My Fury

    Can't you smell the CONDITIONAL love being offered to you by your JW familly? That's the usual pattern sadly. Our way or the highway...

    The book you are studying should be retitled: "What do we say the bible really teaches?" It's all a matter of interpretation after all, and given the Bible Students / JWs history of getting their interpretations flat wrong I wouldn't stake your life (or a big chunk of it) on them being right even now.

    You have come to the RIGHT place if you want an honest appraisal of the religion by people who have or are JWs. personally I was born in and have several decades experience, others here are / where bethelites, elders, pioneers etc so can offer real perspective.

    Enjoy the board and its information.

  • Psychotic Parrot
    Psychotic Parrot

    Some of you people in here really have gone about this the wrong way. Here is someone who is just looking for like minded people to talk to & you ridicule her for it. Instead of giving helpful suggestions you just type sarcastic babble & star wars caption jokes (yeah, you fucking hilarious bunch, you ought to be on tv you little comedians), she'll probably never come back here now because of some of you bastards. She'll be yet another watchtower slave & all because you reinforced the negative image that the watchtower gives apostates.

    You know, as scummy as the watchtower is, sometimes i think they have a point about certain non-adherents.

    Assholes.

  • looloo
    looloo

    cup cake sweet heart please do lots of objective research about jehovahs witnesses i wish i had been able to when i was a study then perhaps my daughter would not of been raped by a ex min servant that had also abused kids as a min servant but had only been reprooved instead of reported to the police , you can still have a faith in god without being a jw , the time i suffered depression was as a "study " i never got baptised !

  • Mad Sweeney
    Mad Sweeney

    Wondering Whether an Organization Might Use Psychological Thought Reform (aka Cult Mind Control techniques) on its members and recruits?

    If the organization uses more than just a couple of methods on the following list, then it is using psychological thought reform, or cult mind control. Jehovah’s Witnesses use all of them to varying degrees.

    1. The organization displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leadership and regards the belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law. ( Jehovah’s Witnesses in practice actually call their religion “the Truth” and membership as being “in the truth.” Only the Governing Body, a small group of men at headquarters, is said to be authorized by God to “dispense spiritual food.”-Matthew 24:45, 7/15/10WT )

    2. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished. ( Those who disagree with any of the teachings of the organization are “disfellowshipped” and thereafter shunned by friends and family. -1Corinthians 5:9-11, )

    3. Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work/service routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leaders. (“Thought stopping” is ingrained as well as heavy use of “loaded language.” Also, some experts have claimed that the meeting format and songs used have a hypnotic effect on the members. )

    4. The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel. ( For example, members can only date or marry other members, cannot work in military jobs, “sisters” must wear dresses to meeting and field ministry, “brothers” must wear ties (a suit if they have any talk or responsibility at the meeting), no beards are allowed in the US, having children is discouraged, discipline of children must be physical, college is discouraged, etc. The 11/15/09 Watchtower, for example, has an article “Treasure Your Place in the Congregation.” The section “Treasure Your Place – How?” is quoted below 1 . )

    5. The organization is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leaders, and members. ( The Governing Body is seen as the only authority directed by holy spirit and representing God’s Kingdom on earth-6/15/09WT; 11/15/09WT; 7/15/10WT , and Witnesses see their religious work as “life-saving.”-7/15/09WT )

    6. The organization has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society. ( Anyone not a Witness is labeled “worldly” and is considered “bad association”. -1Corinthians 15:33. In addition, Witness doctrine claims that all governments are under the authority of Satan and are in opposition to God in line for destruction at Armageddon. Jehovah’s Witnesses have recently been banned in Russia because of their dogmatic verbal attacks on “worldly” governments and on other faiths. )

    7. The leaders are not accountable to any human authorities. ( Unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders, or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations who can be fired or removed for incompetence, there is no human mechanism for evaluating, critiquing, or disciplining the Governing Body. Who chooses new members for the Governing Body? The Governing Body. Who decides, on the extremely rare occasion, to remove a member from the Governing Body? The Governing Body. )

    8. The organization teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group. ( There is an entire Watchtower article on keeping secrets, for example, 6/1/97WT. The elders, on the other hand, are authorized to ask members detailed and intimate questions on any subject they feel is necessary. Gossip, spying, and tattling are commonplace. In “theocratic warfare” or “spiritual warfare” the Witnesses are told it is ok to lie if the enemy doesn’t deserve the truth – 2/1/56WT. )

    9. The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion. ( Sometimes it isn’t so subtle. This is so ingrained that a meeting doesn’t go by without encouragement to “do more” to “do all we can” or to “reach out” in service to “Jehovah’s organization”. )

    10. Subservience to the leaders or the organization requires members to cut ties with non-member family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group. ( Those who have never been Jehovah’s Witnesses are viewed as “worldly” and “bad association” but also as potential recruits into the group; these are not avoided but association is minimized. -1Corinthians 15:33. Those who have either left the religion or been disfellowshipped are completely shunned except for when unavoidable business brings them together. - 2John 10,11. Goals such as raising a large family, progressing in one’s secular career, and obtaining degrees of higher education are strongly discouraged. – 10/06KM “What Do You Put First”? )

    11. The organization is preoccupied with bringing in new members. ( There are two weekly meetings designed to train members to do exactly this, the Theocratic Ministry School and the Service Meeting. )

    12. The organization is preoccupied with making money. ( This is an interesting one with Jehovah’s Witnesses. None of the literature Witnesses distribute has a fixed price because that would be “selling” and incur income tax liability for the Watchtower organization. When literature is distributed, the person receiving the literature is asked for a donation. This arrangement went into practice in the early-to-mid 1990s and by most accounts has not been lucrative for the organization. The organization makes a lot more money by investing in real estate and by providing building loans to local congregations in need of new or remodeled meeting halls, called Kingdom Halls. It is estimated by some that the net worth of the Watchtower Society is over a billion dollars. )

    13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities. ( Members are expected to attend four hours of meetings per week, study several hours at home to prepare for those meetings, and participate in at least ten hours per month in the field ministry. There are no paid positions in the organization, either. Local elders and ministerial servants are all volunteers who must also work a secular job to support themselves and their families. This leaves little time to consider other points of view or conduct research about the organization or anything outside it. )

    14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members. ( Again, those who have never been Jehovah’s Witnesses are viewed as “worldly” and “bad association” but also as potential recruits into the group; these are not avoided but association is minimized and scrutiny for potential recruitment is constant. -1Corinthians 15:33. Those who have either left the religion or been disfellowshipped are completely shunned except for when unavoidable business brings them together. - 2John 10,11; 10/15/09WT “Maintaining Friendships in a Loveless World”. )

    15. The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the organization. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group. ( This is one of the more powerful phobias created by the Watchtower organization in its members. Leaving either voluntarily or via disciplinary action of the congregation results in shunning. Also, former members are depicted as miserable and unhappy as they await destruction by the loving God, Jehovah. See examples below. 2 )

    16. The organization fosters continued dissatisfaction with the present, encouraging members to participate in more and more time-consuming organizational activities that promise to lead to a better future. ( A search of the 2009 Watchtower Library CD Rom, which contains most Watchtower publications in English from 1950 to the present, brings 1,317 results for the phrase “wicked system”. “Satan’s world” returns 627 hits, “wicked world” returns 551, and “Satan’s system” 205. These are just a few examples of “loaded language” used by the Watchtower Society to foster a distaste and dissatisfaction with the world we live in. In contrast, the phrases “wonderful world” and “beautiful world” each return only 8 and 10 results respectively over the same period. The 6/15/08 Watchtower gives a further example of negativity and dissatisfaction with the present life. 3 )

    1 . (WT 11/15/09) One way to find our place in the congregation and give evidence that we treasure it is to cooperate fully with “the faithful and discreet slave” and its representative Governing Body. (ReadMatthew24:45-47.) We need to examine our response to the direction we receive from the slave class. Over the years, for example, we have received pointed direction on dress and grooming, entertainment, and improper use of the Internet. Do we carefully heed this good counsel so that we are spiritually protected? What about the admonition to establish a regular routine of family worship? Have we taken the advice to heart and set aside an evening for that purpose? If we are single, are we making time for personal study of the Scriptures? Jehovah will bless us individually and as families if we follow the guidance of the slave class.

    Some might reason that areas such as entertainment and dress and grooming are personal matters. For the dedicated Christian who cherishes his place in the congregation, though, personal preferences should not be the sole determining factor when making decisions. Consideration must especially be given to Jehovah’s viewpoint as revealed through his Word, the Bible. Its message should prove to be ‘a lamp to our foot, and a light to our roadway.’ (Ps. 119:105) We are wise also to consider how the choices we make in personal matters affect our ministry and other people, both inside and outside the congregation.—Read2 Corinthians6:3, 4.

    “The spirit that now operates in the sons of disobedience” is so widespread that it is like the air we breathe. (Eph. 2:2) That spirit can cause us to think that we do not need guidance from Jehovah’s organization. Surely we do not want to be like Diotrephes, who would not ‘receive anything from the apostle John with respect.’ (3 John 9, 10) We need to guard against developing a spirit of independence. By word or action, may we never challenge the channel of communication that Jehovah is using today. (Num. 16:1-3) On the contrary, we should cherish our privilege to cooperate with the slave class. And should we not strive to be obedient and submissive to those taking the lead in our local congregation?—ReadHebrews13:7, 17.

    Another way to show that we cherish our place in the congregation is by closely examining our personal circumstances and doing all we can to ‘glorify our ministry’ and bring honor to Jehovah. (Rom. 11:13) Some are able to be regular pioneers. Others serve in such special forms of full-time service as missionaries, traveling overseers, and members of Bethel families throughout the world. Many brothers and sisters assist with Kingdom Hall construction. The great majority of Jehovah’s people are doing their best to care for the spiritual needs of their families and have a full share in the ministry each week. (ReadColossians3:23, 24.) We can be confident that when we offer ourselves willingly in God’s service and do our best to serve him whole-souled, there is always a place for us in his arrangement.

    2 . (WT 10/15/07) “… those who do not know Jehovah or who leave his way ultimately feel “pain of heart” and “breakdown of spirit.” (Isaiah 65:13, 14)”

    -(WT 6/15/08) “Here again, ask yourself these questions: ‘Why is that command wise? How will obedience in this matter benefit me?’ You may know some who ignored God’s counsel and then paid a heavy price for that error. Are they really happy now? Do they have a better life than the one they enjoyed in association with Jehovah’s organization? Have they really found some secret to happiness that the rest of God’s servants have missed?—ReadIsaiah65:14.

    Consider the comments made some time ago by a Christian named Sharon: “Because of disregarding Jehovah’s law, I have contracted the deadly disease AIDS. I often look back at the many happy years I had in serving Jehovah.” She recognized that it was foolish to break Jehovah’s laws and that she should have treated them with the greatest respect. Jehovah’s laws are for our own protection. Sharon died just seven weeks after writing the above words. As her tragic experience shows, Satan has nothing good to offer those who become part of this wicked system. As “the father of the lie,” he makes many promises, but they fall flat, just as did the one he made to Eve. (John 8:44) Truly, it is always best to accept Jehovah’s authority.”

    -(WT 5/15/06) 15 “ Individuals wanting to become part of the Christian congregation must meet certain requirements. Logically, modern-day ridiculers are kept out, even as such ones found no place in Noah’s ark. (2 Peter 3:3-7) Particularly since 1952, Jehovah’s Witnesses have given increased support to an arrangement that helps to protect the congregation—that is, the disfellowshipping of unrepentant sinners. Of course, truly repentant wrongdoers are lovingly helped to ‘make straight paths for their feet.’—Hebrews 12:12, 13; Proverbs 28:13; Galatians 6:1.

    16 The spiritually prosperous condition of Jehovah’s people is neither a surprise nor an accident. Through the prophet Isaiah, Jehovah said: “Look! My own servants will eat, but you yourselves will go hungry. Look! My own servants will drink, but you yourselves will go thirsty. Look! My own servants will rejoice, but you yourselves will suffer shame. Look! My own servants will cry out joyfully because of the good condition of the heart, but you yourselves will make outcries because of the pain of heart and you will howl because of sheer breakdown of spirit.” (Isaiah 65:13, 14) Jehovah continues to provide us with an abundant supply of timely and healthful spiritual food that keeps us spiritually strong.—Matthew 24:45.

    Be PreparedforSurvival

    17 As never before, now is the time to “consider one another to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another.” (Hebrews 10:23-25) Sticking close to and staying active with one of the over 98,000 congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses will help us to prepare ourselves for survival. We will have the support of fellow believers as we strive to manifest “the new personality” and put forth wholehearted efforts to help others learn of Jehovah’s provision for salvation.—Ephesians 4:22-24; Colossians 3:9, 10; 1 Timothy 4:16.

    18 Satan and his evil world are keenly desirous of luring us away from the Christian congregation. However, we can remain a part of it and can survive the end of the present wicked system of things. May love for Jehovah and gratitude for his loving provisions move us to be more determined than ever to thwart Satan’s efforts. Meditating on our present-day blessings will strengthen our resolve. Some of these blessings will be discussed in the next article.”

    (Note: This article is about how God is going to kill anyone not in the Jehovah’s Witnesses organization very soon. Leaving JWs will not only wreck your present life, it puts you on Satan’s side, waiting to be destroyed by the loving God, Jehovah. The “blessings” referred to in the next article turn out to be mainly things provided through the Watchtower organization, which is viewed as God’s representative on earth today.)

    3 . (WT 6/15/08) 9 “ Assurancethatworldproblemswillsoonbesolved. Despite scientific and technological know-how and the sincere efforts of certain leaders, serious problems of present-day life remain unsolved. Klaus Schwab, founder of the World Economic Forum, recently noted that “the list of challenges facing the world grows ever longer and the time to address them grows shorter.” He spoke of “dangers that transcend national boundaries like terrorism, environmental degradation and financial instability.” Schwab concluded: “Now, more than ever, the world is faced with realities that call for collective and decisive action.” As the 21st century moves forward, the overall outlook for mankind’s future remains bleak.

    10 How gratifying to know that Jehovah has instituted an arrangement that is capable of solving all of mankind’s problems—the Messianic Kingdom of God! By means of it, the true God will ‘make wars to cease’ and bring about ‘abundant peace.’ (Psalm 46:9; 72:7) The anointed King, Jesus Christ, ‘will deliver the poor one, the afflicted one, and the lowly one from oppression and from violence.’ (Psalm 72:12-14) Under Kingdom rule, there will be no food shortage. (Psalm 72:16) Jehovah “will wipe out every tear from [our] eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” (Revelation 21:4) The Kingdom has already been established in heaven and will shortly take the necessary action to affect every affair on the earth.—Daniel 2:44; Revelation 11:15.”

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice

    Hi, Kourtney, nice to cyber-meet you.

    I was in the JW's for over 40 years. I was a pioneer, Min Serv and Elder.

    I 'woke up' as it were a year ago after serving as an elder. I have seen how it all works behind the scenes and it is just a big business that puts money as a higher priority than your well being.

    Please be very careful sweetheart as it is easy to become a JW but then you will never be allowed to get out if you change your mind.

    what do you make of articles like this?

    "Minds must be cleansed" (Watchtower, June 1, 1953, p. 350 par. 24).
    What would you say ''Mind Cleansing'' is the same as?

    Keep in touch. Unky Punky

  • Mad Sweeney
  • jean-luc picard
    jean-luc picard

    You seem to say

    but my sister tells me I am not aloud to..

    quite often. If your serious about going further with Jehovahs witnesses, then you'd better get used to hearing that. As Murray Smith said, many of us were JWs for 20,30, 40 years. We'll be happy to share our experiences with you, but then its your decision in the end, and everyone here will respect that.

    Good luck ( oh, am I allowed to say that?)

    jlp.

  • Reopened Mind
    Reopened Mind

    CUPCAKEKOURTNEY88:

    Please, please please give what Mad Sweeney above said careful consideration.

    I began studying with Witnesses when a teenager, baptised at 20. I am now 58. For the last 3 years my husband and I have been researching and planning our exit. This is extremely difficult because we have grown children and minor grandchildren who are still Witnesses.

    Back in the late 60' and early 70's (when I studied and was baptised) Armageddon was being hyped as going to occur in the mid seventies, specifically 1975. Guess what? Nothing happened.

    Cupcake, I relate to your situation as you sound just as young and naive as I was before I became a Witness. It is much easier to research both sides of the issue now with the advent of the internet. I encourage you to do so.

    PM me and I will be happy to help you in any way I can.

    Reopened Mind

  • SweetBabyCheezits
    SweetBabyCheezits
    Some of you people in here really have gone about this the wrong way. Here is someone who is just looking for like minded people to talk to & you ridicule her for it. Instead of giving helpful suggestions you just type sarcastic babble & star wars caption jokes (yeah, you fucking hilarious bunch, you ought to be on tv you little comedians), she'll probably never come back here now because of some of you bastards. She'll be yet another watchtower slave & all because you reinforced the negative image that the watchtower gives apostates.
    You know, as scummy as the watchtower is, sometimes i think they have a point about certain non-adherents.
    Assholes.

    PsychoParrot, do you really think what you wrote above is any better? Seriously? If you hope to convince others that former JWs aren't bitter, nasty people, maybe you need to start with yourself, Chief.

    I typed out a sincere message at first but realized it sounded just like everyone else's. In the end, I'm not going to change Kourtney's mind regardless of what I write here. Cynical? Yeah. With your permission, I'd like to address her post however I see fit, even if it's a Star Wars reference.

    That said, I do have a sincere suggestion but it's blunt and she really has no reason to listen to my advice.

    Kourtney, no offense, but most people who buy into the JW sales pitch (or any other high control group like Mormons) are idealistic and naive. We all have been naive at some point or another and we all are naive to some degree right now.

    You don't need anyone to tell you what to think, you need to learn how to think. Please don't take that as condescension because I'm still working that out for myself at 32. Specifically, I'm referring to critical thinking, which should be the foundation upon which we build all knowledge. CT is a learned set of skills and is not taught thoroughly enough, if at all, in traditional K-12 curriculum.

    My suggestion? Start here: http://www.criticalthinking.org/starting/index.cfm

    Best of luck to you.

    PsychoParrot, I'll send you a PM to hash out the rest of this in private.

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