by AuntBee 33 Replies latest jw experiences
never see any not one.
The analogy as a 5year old is crass, what I believed did not affect millions, I did not force others to share my belief and nothing I did harmed another person. My beliefs then were based on what others had told me and I was allowed to change my view when I grew up without fear of rejection.
As JWs we are taught that our beliefs are based on scripture and truth not on fairytales and superstition, there is no comparison.
Why do you people GIVE UP on God when you leave the BORG? God exists, make no mistake about it. The basic tenets of the BORG, such as the existence of God and the truthfulness of the Bible and the truth about the soul, the afterlife and the hope of the Resurrection are all things that are true, and the Good News of the Kingdom is also a truth that they teach. Yes, they do have the 'organization' that has a checked past, present and future, by why throw out the truths that they do teach with the BORG that taught them?
Why do you become atheist just because one religious control group got the best of you? Is it because you feel used? Or abused? or just plain stupid? Please enlighten me on this point.
woj- you talk as if you have found the way. People do what they do. You are a theist, so what?
You are right that it is a false analogy.
The question is does God communicate with the leaders or not? This business about the organization being in a state of infancy is simply hogwash and a futile attempt to reconcile their grievous errors of past.
-Sab
Also it's a convenient analogy because it can be used at any point in the Organization's existence. 20 years from now they could refer to the new generation teaching as a child's explanation. It's a technique to maintain control over the minds of the Watchtower's subjects. Some will leave, but most will swallow it hook line and sinker.
-Sab
Why do you become atheist just because one religious control group got the best of you? Is it because you feel used? Or abused? or just plain stupid? Please enlighten me on this point.
Ok, since you asked.
The answer is, of course, that it is not because of one religious group, although it started there. Once you start to question, really question, what you have been told to believe (for example, God exists, the afterlife and the hope of the Resurrection are all things that are true, and the Good News of the Kingdom, etc.) you begin to see the cracks in the entire ediface. Not used and abused, although those feelings factored into it, and stupid, well, not that either. Just the opposite, from my perspective. It takes a lot of learning to see things clearly, separating fact from fantasy, evidence from faith. Some arrive here sooner than others. For me it took more than five decades of searching to find real truth.
Back on topic, the analogy is indeed exceedingly weak, weaker even than the dark-room-to-full-sunlight analogy that's been used on me to explain New Light, which is really what this is all about. Apparently, God doesn't want us to get hurt by giving us too much information all at once, like having one's vision temporarily obliterated by too much sunlight too fast. But the analogy cannot be reconciled with the fact that people died because of the old information, from refusing smallpox vaccine, refusing organ transplants and refusing to take certain life saving blood fractions, all allowed now. The analogy also cannot be reconciled with the fact that people put off getting a decent education, good jobs, marriage and children in deference to a New World Order that never came. There is something childish about it all, but it is the childish trust that people have put in a manipulative organisation that seeks only to serve itself.
Well put , as usual, Nick, and WELL DONE Aunt Bee !
We do not achieve much by exposing the error in JW's reasoning, the Mind Control that they are under, of which you are becoming something of an expert , Aunt bee, kicks in , and they "rationalise", if I dare use that word in their case, what you have said to make their beliefs still stand.
They go away shaking their head, because the Cognitive Dissonance is too noisy in their head.
Even though we do not achieve an immediate enlightenment for the JW we are talking to, perhaps, in time ,the cumulative effect of coming up against reasoing that conflicts with what they have been force-fed will bring about a result.
Dear Witnessofjesus,
You perhaps should not derail this thread, but start another , to tell me , Nick, and others on here, why we should put any trust in your contentions that the existence of God , resurrection, Good news, etc. etc. are true.
In fact, let's not put too much in one thread, perhaps you could explain why I should believe that God exists ?
(As I say, new thread please, out of courtesy to the Lady who is Auntbee)
Sheesh.
When they talk about "the light getting brighter" I use this analogy-
Say you have a little kid. You are the mother and the father died because he was involved with drugs and was in a shootout and he had killed a bunch of neighborhood kids in the process of finally dying in that shootout.
So: when the kid is like, 3 years old you might say to her, "Daddy is not with us anymore and he's not able to come back- he was wounded"
When the kid is like 6 years old, you could tell her that Daddy died and that when people are dead they don't come back.
When the kid is like 10, you could tell her that Daddy was shot by some bad people.
When the kid was like 15 years old, you could tell her that Daddy was shot in the middle of a shoot out over drugs and that he had harmed other people.
THAT would be an instance of "the light getting brighter": You have the complete story, but you only let a little out every so often, based on what the child can handle based on her age. The story does not CHANGE but details are brought into the light as they are deemed appropriate at the proper time.
That is NOTHING like the JWs version of "brighter light"- they switch positions, decide previous positions are completely wrong and they believe something 180 degrees away from the original teaching, flip flop numerous times... it is NOT light getting brighter... it's light changing from green to red to blue to yellow.
SIGH...
