by compound complex 75 Replies latest jw friends
TD:
"We're talking about the Bully, the Loud Mouth, the Manipulative Shameless Liar, the Selfish Bastard, the Narcissist, the User."
"My wife described him as "Very charming" the first time she met him. There is something that she saw in this man that I'm completely unable to perceive myself. All I can see is the ugliness."
You forgot to add Psychopath, whose interactions with women I have witnessed first hand.
Villabolo
I don't think nice guys lose to bad guys, dear CoCo (peace to you!). Indeed, with very few exceptions, all of the married men (and most of the single men) I know are nice guys. But to address your question, "Why women love jerks", I would like to respond that there are many reasons for this phenomenon starting with the "fear" many women have (perpetuated by society, including women... which is absurd!) that you have no value unless some man wants you (as shown by you having a man)... and so any man will do. It is further perpetuated by insecure men who can't handle rejection from women (but reject women themselves all the time - thus, the term "insecure"...) and so resort to attacking a woman's character... and value... ("Bitch!")... when their advances aren't requitted. These are archaic fears/immature reactions that need to go... once and for all.
But it doesn't stop there. Another primary reason for this phenomenon, both as to men AND women... is that we're initially attracted by what we see with our eyes... ("Ooh, he's HOT!")... "feel" in our "heart" ("Oh, he turns me on!")... or feel with our... well, you know what I mean and it ain't the heart. Especially when we're young and/or inexperienced... or desperate. We tend to assume the "inside" of the book (his, hers, ours) has some actual correlation with its outisde "cover" ("Oh, c'mon - no one THAT cute can be a serial killer! Girl, everybody knows serial killers look like Hannibal Lechter!").
In addition, a lot of folks have mastered the technique of what my daughter refers to as "sending his/her representative"... versus his/her authentic self. Particularly in U.S. dating culture. So, what you see is NOT necessarily what you get... and who you receive is NOT necessarily who actually arrived. Unfortunately, our "fast" culture isn't limited to food: many of us cannot handle being "alone" (which, as you know, isn't the same as "lonely")... and so "jump" on the first (which isn't necessarily the best) prospect that comes our way. Even if he/she isn't [being] "real".
Thirdly, we (women... and, yes, some men, but usually women)... think we can "change/save" him/her ("Yeah, okay, sure, he has a temper but I'm SO "nice" he won't be like that with ME"). Hmmmm... okayyyyyyy.
AND... a whole lot of folks tend to play by the "don't tip your entire hand" set of rules... so that you don't even know what (or rather, who) you're getting at all... until you've invested significant time, energy... and emotion... into the "friendship" ("Oh, by the way, I'm married - what, I didn't tell you that when we started dating, what, 3 years ago? Surely I did! Well, then, oops, my bad!").
All of these have something in common: they are all forms of deception... whether of self or others... from which no good can come.
What should those who are "tired" of the jerks do? First, endeavor not to BE jerks (and if you're not honest with yourself ABOUT yourself, you may well be). Second, look for qualities... and not aesthestics, FIRST. Then worry about looks. A good rule to remember is that looks... can kill. And "sparks"... can not only start a warm fire... but can burn down the whole house if unchecked.
One good quality to look for in everyone is... basic decency. Which means basically honest, respectful, honorable... with some observable measure of kindness and patience. And humor always, always helps. Then build from there. (Note, some people put humor first, and that's good, so long as we're not talking "class clown" - the last thing anyone needs is to try raise a childish adult.)
A good partner is not hard to find, really. It's when the "safari" itself is unrealistic: you want a rhino but you can really only handle a armadillo; you brought along a bazooka but you really only needed a fishing rod; you dressed as a sheep... but you're really a wolf. Wrong trip, wrong hunter, wrong prey. (Now, if you really ARE a wolf... but really are looking for a sheep... well, that's a whole other [therapy] session...).
Anyway, I would say don't give up. Rather, change a couple things, like, for example... your view. Or the location of your "hunt" (if you're searching in bars, well, guess what you're gonna get? If you're searching in churches, expect to get churchy-types. If you want someone who interested in what you're interested in... say, theater... go to the theater. Or the ballpark. Or ask friends.).
The BEST advice? Stop looking. Rather, handle it like pregnancy. Meaning, it's usually when a couple doesn't want to get pregnant that dear baby shows up. Get on with your life. Do what you enjoy and learn to enjoy being with yourself. For some reason, guys who are quite content to be alone seem to be ultimate chick magnates.
I hope this helps and, again, peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA
Meaning, it's usually when a couple doesn't want to get pregnant that dear baby shows up.
This is so true (speaking from experience).
Shelby, you're a wise woman.
Because maybe their fathers' were jerks and that's what they are comfortable with.
I've seen situations where the fathers were actually kind, decent men, dear Ms. Josie (the greatest of love and peace to you, my sister!), but the MOTHERS didn't respect that (considered it "weak", because THEIR fathers were... ummmmm... domineering)... and so belittled the husband/father to the point that the daughters had no respect for them... and so turned to "bad boys".
Dear ones (peace to you all!), let's not overlook women and mothers roles in "teaching" their daughters the kind of men to go for, as well. We women can be our gender's worst enemies, at times. Along with husbands/fathers/other men in the family who applaude "manly" sons and debase/ridicule more effeminate or kindly sons... we coddle and make excuses for our sons who use/abuse/manipulate/take advantage of girls/women. We root for their conquests, even cheer when they finally take a girlfriend ("Oh, Lord, thank GOD!")... while berating our daughters for being attractive and doing all we can to break their confidence and self-esteem (because everyone knows that automatically means they're going to be "fast")... rather then teaching them self-respect... by HAVING self respect (and proper respect for the men in our lives).
We do a great disservice to our children... and our society... when we treat boys and girls differently in these regards. We create jerks (men) and trollops (women). But it should be OKAY for boys to be sensitive AND cellibate, if that's their choice ('cause a whore is a whore, whether male or female)... and MORE than okay - MANDATORY - for girls to speak up and say to a husband/boyfriend, "Uh-uh, sucka, you will NOT hit me!"
Parenting is a J... O... B. Preferable from both sides, but if one side is failing then it absolutely imperative for the remaining side to take up the slack. It really isn't optional... unless one... or both... really don't give a damn what kind of adult his/her children turn out to be. It used to be that you could shirk these duties because "society" would make decent human beings out of them. Surely, though, we all know that THAT has changed. Today, unless we do our jobs, more often than not, society threatens to make jerks, criminals, alcoholics, dope fiends, whores, and sluts out of them. Sons AND daughters.
Again, peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA
All that you've said is true.
We teach our boys to be respectful to woman. My oldest is 16, he's had a few girlfriends but he's yet to have his first kiss. He is interested in sex but he says he wants to wait for the right person (I hope he does but I realize it's his life).
My daughter doesn't seem to be "boy crazy" like her friends. I know she likes boys but she doesn't have the air of desperation that other girls have (even I was desparate at 13). The child has a plan for her life that doesn't hinge on whether a boy likes her or not (wish I had had that kind of confidence at her age).
I hope we are raising good men and women.
I worry about my little girls and being not only a good father to them, but a good role model as a man and a husband ( how they see me treat and love their mother).
I know that I am far from perfect and I make mistakes, too many, but I always try to apologise when I am wrong, stick to me guns when I am right, and not a day goes by that my girls and wife don't hear how much I love them and how blessed I am to have them.
Sure I sometimes act like an ass and say things that are stupid and I love my temper and shout but when I calm down I always ask them to forgive me for losing it and I explain why I lost it.
It's tough being a guy sometimes you know...
We are expected to be MEN and also to be "not men", to be confident but also caring and accesible, to be the security but also to be sensitive, to be FATHER but also friend.
it's not easy...but I would rather fail at being the best father and hisband I can be, then succeed at anything else.
Hmmm...Not sure that came out like I wanted it to !
LOL !
There is NO way I can see you having anything but respectful children, dear Josie (peace, my sistah!)... with or without Mr. Josie (though I by NO means mean to disregard his contributions - LOLOLOLOL!).
Dear PSacto (peace, my brother!)... we know what you mean (though I do think you meant "lose" your temper... vs. "love" it - LOLOLOLOL!).
Peace to you both!
Your servant, sister, and a slave of Christ,
SA
I was looking out the window last night and noticed a neighbor boy in his late teens walking by with several teenaged girls who all seemed enamored with him. I remembered that just seven or eight years ago, this little guy was amusing himself by throwing rocks at horses and shooting the neighborhood cats with his pellet rifle (And then thought of this thread again.)
I was wondering what the girls saw in him.
Have hormones suddenly made this boy a decent person or have they just put a smile on a kid who has never been nice? Is the girl's fascination with the boy himself or does it spring from the fact that their parents almost certainly disapprove of him?
Social scientists tell us that there is a perveristy in the human nature that preserves the genes of individuals like this because they are the ones most likely to survive a complete social breakdown. I don't know if I believe that or not, but some days it does make sense.
The way women chase men today is shocking to me. There is no reserve. Often the boy is really being harassed and wants it to stop. I've seen girls chase even after a boy expresses his disinterest and dislike clearly. Sometimes I think the boy needs a restraining order.
My college was a hook-up place and my law school was a dating place. I don't know fully know why. When I was 18, living with a male was the ultimate, not marriage. Older women would exclaim that marriage protected women and it does. Or under today's rules. Dating was vastly underrated. It seemed to be a cultural difference. I struggle with maintaing standards when I feel worthless. Affirmations help. It should be as easy as breathing to realize when something compromises your moral integrity. It is not easy. I don't see one remedy. The more women have options independent of men I feel they will make better mates.
I still see house husbands as perverted. My cultural bias shows but it is my bias.
I think the "bad boys" come off as confident and secure which is very appealing but then the cocky arrogance gets old fast and you get tired of chasing something that was never really yours or even what you thought it was.
With nice guys sometimes, they for whatever reason, don't step up to the plate. Women don't want to do all the work to make something happen...
It seems like there should be more of a happy medium.
