Is the American empire on the brink of collapse?

by slimboyfat 54 Replies latest social current

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Historian Niall Ferguson made some extended remarks recently arguing that the American empire may be closer to the edge than many suppose.

    He starts out observing that while the fateful decline of American supremacy is now widely accepted, it is still generally expected that this will be a protracted process. After all empires don't fall in a day. Rome took centuries to crumble did it not? Wrong. Ferguson cites examples such as the fall of ancien regime France, the Soviet Union, and the British empire in the postwar period, to show that the collapse of empires often arrive suddenly, take people unawares, and have profound and enduring consequences.

    Another strand to the argument is that empires are best understood well ordered complex systems. Such systems by their nature give an appearance of permanence and durability that belie their vulnerability to fatal shocks. A forest for example appears very stable as it has its own complex systems for maintenance and repair that sustain equilibrium for very long periods of time. And that is true, until a forest fire arrives one day and fatally undermines that equilibrium.

    If empires are complex systems that are susceptible to sudden collapse then what is a common trigger? Again citing historical examples Ferguson argues that fiscal crises are the most common harbinger of serious trouble for sprawling empires. Just such a crisis is what the United States now faces.

    See the full speech here (the introduction is boring, Niall Ferguson starts speaking about nine and a half minutes in):

    http://vimeo.com/14015265

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    An empire is a state with politico-military dominion of populations who are culturally and ethnically distinct from the imperial (ruling) ethnic group and its culture [ 3 ] — unlike a federation, an extensive state voluntarily composed of autonomous states and peoples.

    The United States is not an empire.

    BTS

  • undercover
    undercover
    a federation, an extensive state voluntarily composed of autonomous states and peoples.

    Try voluntarily leaving the federation though... ask the Confederate states how that worked out

  • Gregor
    Gregor

    A lot of people here and abroad sure hope so.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    The US has military bases in every corner of the planet securing their economic, political and military interests. If this is not an empire then what is it? But okay even if the particular word offends American sensibilities (let's humour them) the argument remains the same about America's complex worldwide system of power being vulnerable to collapse.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    If this is not an empire then what is it?

    Other than the possible exceptions of Iraq and Afghanistan, where are these troops present without the consent of the hosting nation's government?

    Europe?

    Japan?

    Saudi Arabia?

    Australia?

    Colombia?

    The Empire monicker does not hold, unless as a semantic stretch.

    The fact is, the US has been the guarantor of the international order since the Second World War.

    It has been a peaceful 60 years, historically. It is arguably the most peaceful half century in human history.

    If the US enforcement of an international order collapses, you (Europe) will feel the pain before we do. You have become feeble and vulnerable under our aegis.

    To use your "imperial" language, when Rome collapsed, it was the periphery that suffered the invading hordes first.

    BTS

  • LivingTheDream
    LivingTheDream

    First, I don't think the United States fits the definition of an empire. Technically, to be an empire it has to be ruled by some kind of monarch or emperor or such and it implies more than one country is ruled over besides the ruling country. The U.S. has a few territories, true, but just because it is a world power doesn't mean it is an empire.

    But, to answer the spirit of your question, I do think the U.S. as a world power, the sole remaining super power, is in fact in a decline. The rise of China and its Yuan is one reason. The weakening of the U.S. dollar is another. The continued economic push back from Europe with its Euro in yet another reason. But probably the biggest reason is the out of control U.S. debt. 14+ trillion and counting. Talk about cutting spending will continue, but the U.S. will not be able to do this until there is a major crisis. The politicians are too much like crack addicts for money and spending. Whether or not this eventual crisis will be defined as a "collapse", I don't know, but just like a private home can go bankrupt, so can the U.S. if the Chinese and others stop lending to it. The U.S. does NOT have an unlimited credit limit.

    The U.S. is simply poised to go bankrupt. The Feds have been trying to help by pushing Quantitive Easing (QE) out in two phases so far during this last administration, but this only weakens the dollar more and drives up inflation faster. The U.S. is in trouble and I don't see how they will get out of it.

    This trouble is also already showing at the individual state level like in California and Hawaii who are in critical fiscal debt situations right now by the tune of billions, with many others following like Massechusetts, Indiana and so on. They will of course ask for Federal help, but how can the Feds give them money it itself doesn't have? The U.S. is arguably in worse condition than even California. It's doubtful that fiscally responsible states like Texas will want to pay for California's irresponsibility either.

    Tea Partiers and the like will scream to high heaven and threaten, but there is only so much then can do. Look at the first act after the Tea partiers pushed a Republican landslide: the all agreed together to spend even more.

    LivingTheDream

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips

    Well, we could pull out of Europe, for starters. Using the information in the graphic posted above, nearly a quarter of our overseas personnel are stationed there. This would save us a lot of money. Let them fend for themselves.

    BTS

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    I agree with you that we in the West have enjoyed an unprecedented pax Americana for the past 60 years. (Obviously people in third world skirmish zones have been less lucky under the American regime however) But the question is whether that is coming to an end. I have no doubt Europe and elsewhere could become seriously destabilised if the American empire collapses. I am not cheering the demise of the American empire by any means. It is a scary prospect.

    I don't think an empire can only be called such if it is rejected by its subjects, but since you ask: I doubt a refrendum in any of the arab states would support the presence of American bases. In Saudi Arabia for example the United States spends a lot of money arming the elite of the regime so they can remain in power, and secure American bases against the will of the people. And needless to say the Japanese, Germans and other peoples did not initially welcome the American presence.

  • Botzwana
    Botzwana

    The only way out is the Revalution of the Dinar. If it doesn't RV then America and almost every nation will collapse. The RV is the get out of jail free card. It would take care of all debt.

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