Are you interested in Bible Congruence?

by sabastious 130 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Oh, Lordy, dear Glad (peace to you!)... it seems [to me]... that I cannot "win." I tried to "speak" as kindly and mildy as I could... to explain myself... in light of your perception that I had berated dear PSacto. Truly, I did not. Yes, I respond to posts line by line but NOT to twist what others state. Rather, it is so that I can respond to what is being directed to/asked of me. So that I DON'T twist anything at all... or leave anything out. I am verbose. I have openly and readily admitted that. But if that is the only "fault" folks can find... well, I just don't get it. Some post pages and pages of cut and paste. What I post comes from me... from my heart. Either my own words or what my Lord gives me. How can you fault someone for being genuine??

    I understand what you are trying to do. In turn, I have only asked that you understand what I am trying to do. I get that being "sweeter" might please a lot more people. But it is not my task to be "sweet" - it is my task to be honest and truthful. Always. And hide nothing.

    So, again, I apologize to YOU... if I offended YOU... as that was not my intention. Dear PSacto has stated that he was not offended (as he also stated, he understands me, and I believe he does, so I was straightforward and honest with him. Where is the crime/fault in that? He saw none, so I must honestly say I don't get how you did).

    As for the attention I receive, as you can well guess, that is a two-edge sword. I only state what I am compelled to (and, on occasion, what I think "on my own"). If you and others are compelled to read such, then GREAT... WONDERFUL. And if you are not, I do not blame, judge, ridicule, or take issue with you. I post MY truth... as I know it and receive it from my Lord. I do not do it to offend... or to chastise... but because it is the TRUTH. Most here got caught up in the WTBTS because that is what they wanted... and thought they would receive: the truth. Knowing now that that was NOT the case, should we not, above ALL things... speak ONLY that when we are speaking of spiritual things? Or is it "okay" to once again mislead others... for the sake of being accepted by the majority, the "group"? I cannot do that, dear one. I cannot. My words may not be as "seasoned" as some would like them to be... but they are truth. Always.

    Again, if I offended you... I apologize. With all of my heart.

    And I remain, your servant... and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • CandleLight
  • Terry
    Terry

    There is bible which I would advise everybody to get their hands on and read start to finish--if for no other reason--than to experience

    the dissonant conflicts within their on mind from the clash between LITERAL and PRESUPPOSITIONAL readings.

    Young's Literal translation is the book. It is a word for for word literal (non-interpreted) rendering, warts and all.

    Immediately upon encountering the literal texts you will find your mind bending!

    What you will discover is that the bible you are most comfortable with and have learned from and have absorbed into every cell of your being has the oppressively intrusive hand of a translator squeezing it into a particular shape. It has been shaped to fit. To fit what, though?

    A world view.

    Grab a copy of YOUNG's LITERAL TRANSLATION and sit down with a lemonade for a cool ride!

    Young's Literal Translation, complete text online

    ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

    (The following from Wikipedia:)

    Young's Literal Translation is a translation of the Bible into English, published in 1862. The translation was made by Robert Young, compiler of Young's Analytical Concordance to the Bible and Concise Critical Comments on the New Testament. Young produced a "Revised Version" of the translation in 1887. After he died on October 14, 1888, the publisher in 1898 released a new Revised Edition.

    Translation philosophy

    The Literal Translation is unusual in that, as the name implies, it is a strictly literal translation of the original Hebrew and Greek texts. The Preface to the Second Edition states,

    If a translation gives a present tense when the original gives a past, or a past when it has a present; a perfect for a future, or a future for a perfect; an a for a the, or a the for an a; an imperative for a subjunctive, or a subjunctive for an imperative; a verb for a noun, or a noun for a verb, it is clear that verbal inspiration is as much overlooked as if it had no existence. THE WORD OF GOD IS MADE VOID BY THE TRADITIONS OF MEN. [Emphases in original.]

    Therefore, Young used the present tense in many places in which other translations use the past tense, particularly in narratives. For example, the YLT version of Genesis begins as follows:

    1 In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth —
    2 the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,
    3 and God saith, 'Let light be;' and light is.
    4 And God seeth the light that good, and God separateth between the light and the darkness,
    5 and God calleth to the light 'Day,' and to the darkness He hath called 'Night;' and there is an evening, and there is a morning — day one.
    6 And God saith, 'Let an expanse be in the midst of the waters, and let it be separating between waters and waters.'
    7 And God maketh the expanse, and it separateth between the waters which under the expanse, and the waters which above the expanse: and it is so.
    8 And God calleth to the expanse 'Heavens;' and there is an evening, and there is a morning — day second.
    9 And God saith, 'Let the waters under the heavens be collected unto one place, and let the dry land be seen:' and it is so.
    10 And God calleth to the dry land `Earth,' and to the collection of the waters He hath called 'Seas;' and God seeth that good.
    11 And God saith, 'Let the earth yield tender grass, herb sowing seed, fruit-tree (whose seed in itself) making fruit after its kind, on the earth:' and it is so.
    12 And the earth bringeth forth tender grass, herb sowing seed after its kind, and tree making fruit (whose seed in itself) after its kind; and God seeth that good;
    13 and there is an evening, and there is a morning — day third. [1]

    Young's Literal Translation also consistently renders the Hebrew Tetragrammaton (divine name) throughout the Old Covenant/Testament as "Jehovah", instead of the traditional practice of representing the Tetragrammaton in English as "LORD" in all capitals.

    Assessment

    Young's translation is closer to the Hebrew than the better-known versions of this passage in English. The Revised Standard Version (RSV), for example, treats Genesis 1:1–3 in this way:

    1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
    2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.
    3 And God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. [2]

    Young better reflects the meaning of the original Hebrew than does the RSV. [citation needed] Bereshith bara elohim, the RSV's "In the beginning God created...", is in the construct state (bereshith), not the absolute (barishona) , meaning it refers to an action in progress, not to a completed act. Similarly, there is no license in the Hebrew for the RSV's division of these verses into three sentences (ancient Hebrew lacked punctuation, and sentence divisions have to be inferred), as the order of the words wa ha-aretz hayetha (subject-verb) points to the rendering "the earth being" (Young's "the earth hath existed"), while the RSV's "and the earth was" requires words in the order wa tehi ha-aretz (verb-subject). [3] Young's usage of English present tense rather than past tense has been supported by scholars ranging from the medieval Jewish rabbi Rashi (who advised, "[I]f you are going to interpret [this passage] in its plain sense, interpret it thus: At the beginning of the creation of heaven and earth, when the earth was (or the earth being) unformed and void . . . God said, ‘Let there be light.’") to Richard Elliott Friedman in his translation of the Five Books in "The Bible with Sources Revealed" (2002). [4]

    The translation has been criticized by some [who?] as falling short in some respects. It renders Luke 24:1 as “And on the first of the sabbaths” while it translates Acts 20:7 as “And on the first of the week” even though the two phrases are identical in the Greek texts. To quote the preface "Every effort has been made to secure a comparative degree of uniformity in rendering the original words and phrases. Thus, for example, the Hebrew verb nathan, which is rendered by the King James' translators in sixty-seven different ways... has been restricted and reduced to ten, and so with many others. It is the Translator's ever-growing conviction, that even this smaller number may be reduced still further." [5]

    Eternity or age

    Another important feature of YLT is its treatment of the Hebrew word olam and the Greek word aion. These two words have basically the same meaning, and YLT translates them and their derivatives as “age” or “age-during”. Other English versions most often translate them to indicate eternality (eternal, everlasting, forever, etc). However, there are notable exceptions to this in all major translations, such as Matthew 28:20: “…I am with you always, to the end of the age” (NRSV), the word “age” being a translation of aion. Rendering aion to indicate eternality in this verse would result in the contradictory phrase “end of eternity”, so the question arises whether it should ever be so. [6] Proponents of Universal Reconciliation point out that this has significant implications for the problem of hell [7] . Contrast Matthew 25:46 in well-known English translations with its rendering in YLT:

    And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during. (YLT) [8]

    Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. (NIV) [9]

    These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. (NASB) [10]

    And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal. (KJV) [11]

    And these shall go away into age-abiding correction, but the righteous into age-abiding life. (EBR) [12]

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Young's is a good translation but like any literal one it misses the mark on meaning, especially since Hebrew and Greek do NOT translate well into english word-for-word.

    Of course, Young's use of Jehovah is a prime example of NOT being as literal as it makes itself out to be.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Young's is a good translation but like any literal one it misses the mark on meaning, especially since Hebrew and Greek do NOT translate well into english word-for-word.

    Well isn't that what UNDERSTANDING actually rests upon conceptually? Interpretation=Understanding.

    WE supply the interpretation (ala Luther's principle of Sola Scriptura) with the illusion that Holy spirit is leading the way....

    Or..

    We let the choice of Church dictate the understanding.

    Either way you are screwed!

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Well, I won't argue that it isn't tricky, that's for sure.

    But hopefully one tempers ones interpretation with some research and reason, a long with the Holy spirit.

    Example, Paul says alot in his letters but he also says things like " the lord said" (which we can verify against other sources) or "not the lord but I" when he is expressing his opinion, that SHOULD give us a clue that not ALL that Paul says is "from the Lord" and that some is his own personal opinion.

    Also, taking into account that the apostles themselves had different views on certain doctrines ( but not on Jesus being Lord and Saviour and Son of God) we can see that it is "ok" to have different opnions on certain things.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Which all leads one to suspect rather strongly that what we call the Bible is not a lump sump contribution from on high credited to our account

    for enrichment.

    It is highly artificial. Synthetic.

    Cobbled from sources beyond verification and edited at will (not to mention endlessly re-translated and "corrected") it would be foolhardy to

    simply insist we come out ahead when we plunge in up to our eyebrows and try to swim.

    A little boy standing next to his father in the bookstore (where I work; in the religion section) looked around and innocently asked, "Why don't people just read the bible?"

    Wow! What an insightful question from one so young!

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    "Why don't people just read the bible?"

    Okaaayyyy? I mean, not that that's going to give them any special insight, but at least if they're going to deign to quote and/or debate what's in it...

    Peace to you, dear Terry!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    Why don't people just read a dictionary to understand "heat"? why don't thye just read an encylopedia to understand "Egypt" ?

  • SweetBabyCheezits
    SweetBabyCheezits

    In Pakistan, a little boy standing next to his father in the bookstore looked around and innocently asked, "Why don't people just read the Koran?"

    In Utah, a little boy standing next to his father in the bookstore looked around and innocently asked, "Why don't people just read the Book of Mormon?"

    In India, a little boy standing next to his father in the bookstore looked around and innocently asked, "Why don't people just read the Vedas?"

    All of these accounts were "inspired" by real events. Man, the ideas we latch onto at such a young age, eh? And chances are that each of these little boys will grow up loyal to the beliefs that were passed on to them (before they could ask critical questions).

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