Top 10 reasons why JWs don't have the truth - please contribute

by oldlightnewshite 172 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  isaacaustin

  Reniaa said:

  Fernando

  1/ Romans 16:17
  I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

  My reply: Learned from who? About who?

  Reniaa said:
  Acts 17:11
  Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

  My reply: The WT says this only applies to persons before they get baptized as JWs.

  skipping thru some of your nonsense...

  Reniaa said:

  7/ We fully accept Jesus's mediatorship of the covenant that involves the 144,000. What we don't do is turn something Jesus instituted as a remembrance of him and his sacrifice and turn it into a canabalistic salvation ceremony from false understanding of Scripture.

  Luke 22:19 (New International Version)

  19 And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."

  My reply: So why don't witnesses do what Jesus said to do?

  Reniaa said:

  9/ I think you seem to be just flaying an authoritive structure here but this is simply not biblical.

  1 Corinthians 12:28
  And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues.

  10/ You seem to be an anti-authority person this is not unusual but it simply isn't biblical. shepherds/ positions of authority/ having to make the hard decisions for the whole flock is a biblical theme. How can the 144,000 become kings and priests in the kingdom if they have not first trianed for the job on earth as shepherds?

  My reply: What kind of authority and how should it be used?

  Reniaa said:

  Matthew 24:45-47 (New International Version)

  45 "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put IN CHARGE of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 I tell you the truth, he will put him IN CHARGE of all his possessions.

  My reply: Parable misinterpretated by the WT...speaking of rewards given at the end...not a 1919 appointment of a false prophet just released from 'Babylonish captivity'.

  Reniaas favorite and most misunderstood text:

  Leadership is not a evil sin but a biblical requirement.

  Hebrews 13:17
  Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

  Shepherds in leadership roles can I acknowledge be a great force for good or evil and they will be held accountable for this but to just reject them is simply not an option for Christians.

  Leaders are not meant to be passive fools either allowing the flock to run amuck. They have to feed/support/rebuke/judge/keep clean the flock and ours do all that.

  7 Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

  9 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by ceremonial foods, which are of no value to those who eat them. 10 We have an altar from which those who minister at the tabernacle have no right to eat.

  11 The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp. 12 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood. 13 Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore. 14 For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come.

  15 Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise—the fruit of lips that confess his name. 16 And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased. 17 Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

  My reply: Verse 7 gives the whole picture, showing verse 17 is not speaking of doing whatever your religious leaders say, but rather to follow their faqith and be obedient to them to the extent that what they are teaching is the word of God.
• 

  debator

  hi freydo

  another list.

  1/ ten commandments? huh! this is a jewsih covenant issue?

  2/ they use the torah but it is a shadow of it's future fulfillment in Jesus coming as messiah. So are you a jew?

  3/ We do not use the ancient hebrew version of YHWH but no one does! It is a lost language no one speaks anymore. So we use the English version of YHWH. The bible is written in 3 different languages Jehovah has no problem with transliterated names from one language to another. Notable in his own son who has 3 versions of his name in the bible none of which we use now. We use "J-esus" the English version of the original hebrew too.

  4/ There are 3 different versions of Jesus's name in the bible all written under inspiration from God his father: yeshua, yahoshuah, iesous (hebrew, aramaic, greek) which of these is correct and which did God falsely inspire if only one can be correct?

  5/ Head covering was something that Paul used in that cultural time but it isn't something we needed to keep doing. Our shepherdss can bring in reasonable changes if circumstances allow outside of bible absolutes, they have that authority with daily issues to do with the administration of the congregation.

  6/ pervert Justice? not sure what you even mean there? you need to be more explicit?

  7/ yes they do!

  8/ No they goto original texts Compare this to 1700 years of trinitarian doctrine changing scripture quite openly aka 1 john 5:7 additions done in the 15th century among many many others.

  9/ Obedience to Jehovah is our absolute but he does require us to obey shepherds (but they are still accountable for their overseership!)

  Hebrews 13:17
  Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

  10/ unproven slander.
• 

  isaacaustin

  Hebrews 13:17
  Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

  Reniaa says: Shepherds in leadership roles can I acknowledge be a great force for good or evil and they will be held accountable for this but to just reject them is simply not an option for Christians.

  Leaders are not meant to be passive fools either allowing the flock to run amuck. They have to feed/support/rebuke/judge/keep clean the flock and ours do all that.

  My reply:

  Here is the full text....

  7 Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

  9 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by ceremonial foods, which are of no value to those who eat them. 10 We have an altar from which those who minister at the tabernacle have no right to eat.

  11 The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp. 12 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood. 13 Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore. 14 For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come.

  15 Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise—the fruit of lips that confess his name. 16 And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased. 17 Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

  My reply: Verse 7 gives the whole picture, showing verse 17 is not speaking of doing whatever your religious leaders say, but rather to follow their faith and be obedient to them to the extent that what they are teaching is the word of God.

  The term translated 'obey' has other meanings as well...such as trusting, being reasonable or open to persuasion:

  http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3982&t=KJV

  1) persuade

  a) to persuade, i.e. to induce one by words to believe

  b) to make friends of, to win one's favour, gain one's good will, or to seek to win one, strive to please one

  c) to tranquillise

  d) to persuade unto i.e. move or induce one to persuasion to do something

  2) be persuaded

  a) to be persuaded, to suffer one's self to be persuaded; to be induced to believe: to have faith: in a thing

  1) to believe

  2) to be persuaded of a thing concerning a person

  b) to listen to, obey, yield to, comply with

  3) to trust, have confidence, be confident
• 

  freydo

  coffee black - it's just another way jw's have twisted meanings - there's nothing that Paul wrote, or anywhere in Scripture that suggests that a woman should only be covered when performing the duty of a man in prayer or prophesy(including making comments at meetings)

  1Cor 5-7

  "And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is just as though her head were shaved. If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. A man ought not to cover his head,"

  debator - the only reason jw's study Torah is to justify their own ideas - as for Jews - Messiah and all the first century church practiced Torah. They didn't start a new religion. That came later with the merging with Roman Sun Worship - hence SUNday

  Matt 5:17 - "Think not that I came to destroy the Law."

  When we present Almighty Yahweh's law, And arguments from the Scriptures draw, Objectors say, to pick a flaw, "IT'S JEWISH."

  Though at first Almighty Yahweh blessed, And sanctified His day of rest, The same belief is still expressed, "IT'S JEWISH."

  Though with the world this rest began, and then through all the Scriptures ran, And Yahushua said, 'Twas made for man" -- "IT'S JEWISH."

  If from the bible we present, The Sabbath's meaning and intent, This answers every argument-- "IT'S JEWISH."

  Though the disciples, Luke and Saul, Continue still this rest to call, The 'Sabbath Day', this answers all, "IT'S JEWISH."

  The evangels taught a plain expression, That "Sin is of the law transgression", Seems not to make the least impression-- "IT'S JEWISH."

  They love the rest of man's invention, But if Almighty Yahweh's Day we mention, That puts an end to all contention, "IT'S JEWISH."

  Well, those who Yahweh's Day abuse, Simply because 'Twas made for Jews', The Savior, too, you must refuse, for "HE'S JEWISH!"
• 

  isaacaustin

  Freydo, I agree there. they pick and choose from the Law what they need to use to bolster their own doctrines....like stealing and misapplying the dietary restriction on the eating of animal blood and conflating it, then stringing together with Gen and Acts to make it appear to support their ever-changing 'blood doctrine'
• 

  debator

  Hi Freydo

  It is actually from 1 cor 11 but it is a difficult call for shepherds. Like I said especially as the context would show that women have already been given a natural head covering for this purpose.

  1 Corinthians 11:15 (New International Version)

  15 but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.
• 

  isaacaustin

  Actually a reading thru the whole book of Cor will show it was Paul refuting a letter written to the cong stating they had to do certain things. Paul was refuting this assertion here ....sometimes it is a bit difficult to follow as paul is quoting what was said, and then giving his words.
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  PSacramento

  As witnesses to "JEHOVAH" ( there translation of YHWH) they make themselves subject to the OLD covenant and a ssuch, JW's shouldfollow the Old Covenant Laws.

  Since Jesus commanded in ACTS that HIS followers be witnesses to HIM, then they ( those that are witnesses to Jesus) are part of the NEW covenant and the OC Laws and rules adding to the 10 Commandments by the Hebrew scribes and rulers, do NOT apply to them like they do to the JW's.
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  freydo

  The 10 Commandments have always existed.

  Genesis 26:5 " Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws ."

  And circumcision too which Abraham did at 99 years of age.

  Thanks for the correction on 1cor - forgot the 11.
• 

  notverylikely

  Sweet, Jesus lover cagefight!