G'day Bathory,
Nice to see you posting something of substance.
: Jeeezz mate you've milked milage out of that Penton quote !!
Best believe it! Truth never changes.
: Umm id be checking with the Pentoes ( if he is still kicking around ) after today to see if there are any limitations set by him regarding the free use of his " bitch " slur.
Nope. He's still kicking and he uses it regularly.
: Not that i would like to instigate a debate with you over this issue but with regards to your " general " opinion on the matter, im sure others that are reading through this thread will recognise that there are NO true JW defenders operating here. Whomever claim to be, are not representing the true standpoints of the WTBTS, therfore your own over simplified, judgemental " analysis " applies to no one here, and therfore is borrowed from the straw man falacy.
Of course there have been true JW defenders on this board, and certainly on the old H2O. Whether they are/were "true" defenders as you would define "true" is something of a matter of opinion. The simple fact is that even the most rabid of defenders that I presume you'd like to call "false defenders" generally represent one end of a spectrum of defenders. Watchtower leaders, as shown by the written material they cause to be published in journals such as The Watchtower, hold almost identical opinions in many ways to those of the most rabid of JW defenders we've seen on this board. The main difference between the people is that some choose to go on the Internet, and some follow the Watchtower Society's direction and stay away from it. But since Watchtower does not apply severe sanctions to those who attempt to defend it on the Net, and gives lip service to the notion that JWs have a modicum of "religious freedom", these Net defenders feel free to excercise their freedom of choice.
: Esp our once resident non corp sanctioned, so called anointed one YK, whom certainly does a great deal of damage for the org in his representation, which as we found out in time was little more than a very small angry man, voicing his personal biases, in a judgemental and strictly dishonest way, and often was seen and found out to be a real fanatic.
YK is no more fanatical than Freddie Franz and plenty of other WTS leaders are/were. The only difference between them is that YK has managed to do things to alienate himself from present WTS leaders, and so they blow him off. In the most fundamental ways, though, they're all the same -- fanatics who would sacrifice anyone and anything for a position in the Holy JW Organization. YK blusters about his independent thought, but you can bank on the fact that if the current WTS mucky mucks offered him a position of power, he'd take it in a heartbeat and forget all about his supposed independence.
: Until you guys can attract competent defenders, the likes of Staford, your grievences and opposing views toward the WTBTS will not be answered and addressed, therefore not allowing for the reaching of meanifull conclusions and judgements, only frustrated erronious ones.
Guys like Stafford never last. They can't, because they're basically honest people, and eventually Watchtower duplicity catches them up short. Those who continue in the JW organization never continue in any defensive mode in an online arena. They may come on strong for awhile, but they always go away chastened, or secure in their braindeadness.
No one who has been on these boards for more than a few years expects that the WTS will ever answer "grievances and opposing views". Indeed, it is a matter of internal policy that they don't. So it falls to individual JWs, who always fall by the wayside, one way or another.
Meaningful conclusions are reached all the time on these boards, not because of a give and take between JW defenders and critics, but because critics generally have their act together and JWs don't. We don't reach a conclusion that the earth is curved by a compromise between flat-earthers and 'tightly curved earthers' -- we reach it because we can see the facts.
: Hey AF, you made Stafi leave with his tails between his legs, we all enjoyed those debates in the old H2O you had with him, where according to the polls at that time ( and IMHO ) you were certainly viewed as the winner ( if you could say there is a winner in these matters ), you were able to direct your succinct and well honed knowledge and wit, toward one that was worthy of it, how i miss those days of enlightinment. YOU yourself, through your postings and rebuttles, have helped thousands to evaluate, and re-evaluate their allegence to the org, ONLY because we could see both sides represented to satisfaction. I thank you for this with much emphasis my friend, and long for the time where this forum will be what it was designed to be.
Thanks for your nice comments. However, keep in mind that some who once adamantly defended the JW organization, like Jay Hess, turned around once they realized exactly what the JW organization was. I have no doubt that other basically honest JW defenders will continue to do the same.
As for this board, I don't know "what it was designed to be". It certainly has a flavor different from the H2O of 2-3 years ago. I applaud that to a large extent. Masses of people posting make a board what it is, and if the board owner is happy with it, then that's his prerogative. I do, though, sympathize with your longing.
AlanF
