is jesus a god?

by javig 304 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  EverAStudent

  To IwateBuddy: That is an interesting apologetic. As you say, most have not attempted to learn Greek.

  Sadly, a great intellect and a surpassing background in ancient languages do not automatically result in a person acknowledging Christ as God and Lord. In fact, the more education one accrues can actually result in a supreme confidence and arrogance against Jesus if one rejects the claim of Christ to be God.

  All that said, I think your approach is excellent and well worth trying. Utlimately, it resides with God's Holy Spirit to permit a person to realize that Jesus is YHWH.
• 

  AGuest

  aguest wants everybody to trust her words and her lord without evidence, and the evidence she uses, the bible, is always out of context and twisting scriptures and script torture.

  Silly rabbit… and blind guide - you consistently contradict yourself. Get your lies straight, hypocrite.

  If she is really lawyer she would know that without evidence in a courtroom the case will not go far…

  She is not a lawyer. But she certainly knows that “testimonial” evidence (here, the VOICE of my Lord, the Holy One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, himself, who is the Holy Spirit) goes WAY farther than “documentary” evidence (for instance, what a particular book - here the Bible - or version of that book, purports to say ABOUT that One).

  She knows that she can either listen to that One speak… HIMSELF… ABOUT himself… OR… read a book that purports to know… and state… the truth about him. Regardless of whether the books does or does not… the fact that others wrote what’s in it would render the entire thing as “hearsay”… because she cannot cross-examine the writers. THEY… can no longer speak. But the One ABOUT whom they WROTE… CAN… and DOES speak… and his testimony has proven TRUTHFUL.

  So, now, get behind me, liar and offspring of vipers... and may the MOST Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, whose name IS... JAH... of Armies... rebuke YOU... by and through His Son and Christ, my Lord and master, the HOLY One of Israel, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... the Holy Spirit.

  A slave of Christ... to time indefinite,

  SA
• 

  IwateBuddy

  Thanks for that EverAStudent. Fortunately there are a few examples the other way too! Something that bothers me about JW is how they have an answer for everything! I've never hard one say, for example, "I don't know. I'll have to get back to you on that." They have their little JW books and they find the right page and illustrate their point from abstruse Greek grammar, the Church Fathers, the Nicean Creed and so on. They themselves don't know the first thing about Greek grammar, haven't read the works quoted, can't discuss the texts involved and don't intend to either!

  Another thing that bothers me is how, around my area at least, they use mostly pretty twenty-something young ladies for doorknocking! They seem to understand marketing very well - much better than theology or Greek grammar anyhow!
• 

  AGuest

  May you have peace!

  the more education one accrues can actually result in a supreme confidence and arrogance against Jesus if one rejects the claim of Christ to be God.

  Interesting. I had heard similar when I associated with the WTBTS; however, it has proved absolutely untrue in my case. I do reject the claim that my Lord is the same as the Father. I totally embrace HIS words that the Father is, in fact, greater than him... and that he is the Father's "faithful and discreet slave"... Joseph... while the Father Himself is the householder... Pharaoh. I totally embrace HIS words TO the Father, "MY God, MY God..." And I totally embrace his words that he did nothing of his OWN initiative... indeed, he didn't even COME of his initiative... but what he learned FROM the Father, beheld the FATHER doing, and was sent BY the Father. And I have a doctorate degree.

  Now, you might believe me to be the exception to the rule, but I did not find that to be true when I attended university. In fact, I found that what people DID reject was RELIGION... while STILL accepting God AND Christ... overwhelmingly... whether as one being or as two separate individuals (and I attended univesity for 8 years and met a LOT of people).

  Based on this, I came to the conclusion that the WTBTS' MAIN reason for discouraging higher education is NOT because people will lose their faith in God... or in Christ... or in them being one being... or two separate beings... but because people would lose their faith... in THEM. Given simple critical thinking processes, they would HAVE to... because no matter HOW you slice it... one plus one... equals two.

  Unfortunately, the WTBTS teaches that one plus one... equals... well, pretty much whatever it is they SAY it equals at any given time. And even if you are holding one stick in one hand... and another stick in the other... THEY reserve the right, in their opinion... to tell you that you do NOT have a total of two sticks... but, perhaps, even no sticks at all.

  And MY education and critical thinking abilities tell ME that people who teach that God and Christ are the same being... that Christ, the Son of God and HOLY One of Israel, is ALSO JaHVeH, the Father and MOST Holy One of Israel... in spite of what Christ HIMSELF is recorded to have SAID (regardless of what some may believe ONE verse states, which verse is highly debated)... seem to have that same math deficiency. Because, while I do understand that five pennies may in fact make $.05... they do NOT make a solid nickel... which is also $0.05.

  I bid you peace.

  A slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  lovelylil2

  I was newly out of the JW's when someone told me about the 200 verses changed in the NT. At first I did not believe this to be true because how can they get away with that? Also I knew the WT was arrogant but thought even they would not blatantly subvert the scriptures. So too see if this were true, I DID go to the WT's publication of the Greek Interlinear Translation and studied it closely along with the NWT and another bible, the NIV.

  The WT's own book proved that in the original Greek New Testament, Jesus IS referred to as GOD. Not a GOD. I have since ditched all the WT publications EXCEPT the Greek Interlinear Translation book. I use it to witness to other JWs.

  btw: I now study New Testament Greek for my own knowledge. And there is no doubt about it the first century church recognized Jesus as God "in the flesh" and worshipped him accordingly.

  For the sake of time, this is all I wish to say on this topic for now. Sorry I came in so late. Interesting thread though. Peace to all, Lilly

  P.S. for those still in the org, if you do not have this book (Greek Interlinear Translation), get a copy. It just may change your life.
• 

  jeremiahjs

  Jesus was sent by God this is written many times in both testements. The Father, Creator , Yawhew/Jehovah is the One true God, He dosn't have a god he is the Almighty God. Jesus has a God and Father and this is evedent in the bible(Jesus prayed to his Father not himself). Jesus obeyed God's commandment's. God has no commandments to follow he is Holy enough, dosn't need them, but he gave everything he created commanments according to His own will. Jesus was created by God making him the Son of God. The Father never was created; He has always been alive and will always be alive; everything elese in existence has been created but God - this is hard to understand but shows you the power and glory and timelessness of Father God Jehovah - the Creator. Jesus made sure he always gave glory to his Father, not to himself read the gospels and remember LORD replaced the name Jehovah in most translations.(LORD, Father, God, Creator = Jehovah)(Son of God, Lord sheperad, Chirst, king = Jesus) Jehovah is our Father, God, and Creator and it is him alone you should worship and render sacred service to - (bow down, pray to, and Love MOST of all; God is a Jealous God exacting exclusive devotion, do not be putting anything in front of Him). You can make anything a 'god' if you worship it. Read 1Corinthans8:5,6 and God's first commanment to mankind=Exodus20:1-7 NEVER slander or curse the name Jehovah or in Hebrew Yahweh it is holy holy holy. i hope this helps, God Bless you.
• 

  UnDisfellowshipped

  JeremiahJS, I encourage you to study and examine these verses closely:

  John 20:28-29 (NIV): Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

  Titus 2:13 (NIV): while we wait for the blessed hope--the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,
  
  Hebrews 1:8 (NIV): But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
  
  2 Peter 1:1 (NIV): Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
  
  Acts 20:28 (NIV): Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.
  
  Philippians 2:5-6 (NIV): Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
  
  Colossians 2:9 (NIV): For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
  
  Romans 9:5 (NIV): Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
  
  1 John 5:20 (NIV): We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true--even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.
  
  Revelation 5:8-14 (NIV): And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty- four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth." Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. In a loud voice they sang: "Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!" Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!" The four living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and worshiped.
  
  John 5:23 (NIV): that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

  Act 7:59 While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
  
  John 14:13-14 (NIV): And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

  John 10:29-30 (NIV): My Father ... is greater than all; ... I and the Father are one."
  
  John 8:58 (NIV): I tell you the truth, Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
  
  John 1:18 (NIV): No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
  
  John 1:1-3 (NIV): In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

  Let me know what you think about those verses.
• 

  OUTLAW

  Javig..

  To outlaw:

  Please don’t trust me…double check if what I said is biblical or not, I rather want you to trust the truths found in the bible but not me. You choose Shelby as a Christian example? Ok…then again I ask you to double check her theology about Jesus and humans views…

  Shelby is a Christian..

  Shelby follows the words and examples of Jesus..

  Not an out of date book of rules(The Bible) written for ancient Jewish people..

  unless you are an individual cult like Shelby/aguest…

  I am not a Christian..

  Nor do I follow any Religion..

  However..

  I have a great respect for people who are truthful..

  Shelby is one of the most truthful people I know...

  …..as you see I am directing you to a single written source, the bible, while aguest wants everybody to trust her words and her lord without evidence,

  If you are a Christian..

  You follow the words and examples of Jesus..

  Exclusively..

  With out Exception..

  and the evidence she uses, the bible, is always out of context and twisting scriptures and script torture.

  Shelby knows the Bible better than most..

  For a Christian like Shelby..Jesus is the Last Word..

  "JESUS IS THE WORD"..

  If she is really lawyer she would know that without evidence in a courtroom the case will not go far…

  Reread my post to you..

  Shelby is "Trained",to be a Lawyer..

  Shelby is "Qualified",to take a Lawyers Bar Exam..

  You are the one who twists Truth..

  And..

  Can`t follow the rules of debate,they themselves set..

  You are no match for someone like Shelby..

  .................... ...OUTLAW
• 

  AGuest

  This will be my last post on this subject because my time has run out. I will be away from the board for some time(possibly a year or more - only my Lord knows). I will check in from time to time, as "life" permits me... and the Spirit guides and directs me. But I believe such times will be quite brief. In the meantime, I thank you all for your "hospitality" during this particular "trip" through the "city" of JWD.net. I hope to "see" you all again soon and, for those whose greetings of peace were and are authentic, may the undeserved kindness and mercy of my God and Father, the MOST Holy One of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, whose name IS... JAH... of Armies... and the love and peace of HIS Son and Christ, the HOLY One of Israel, my Lord and master, JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... who is the Holy Spirit... be upon you... and your households... if you so wish it.

  YOUR servant, and a slave of Christ,

  SA

  (The following comments are not addressed to anyone specifically: they are for anyone and everyone, particularly those who cannot understand what it means to have... and exercise FAITH... in the Word of God, Christ. As some would say, "if the shoe fits..." Please note, it is "borne" of my PASSION... for the truth... and Truth. It is from MY spirit... as the Holy Spirit led ME... and so I have not stumbled or watered-down it down, at all. May you have ears to hear... and get the SENSE of these things... if you so WISH them.)

  The Greek word “theos” means “god”… BEFORE it means “God” (as in “the Godhead,” though such a term can be found NOWHERE in the Bible). It also means “gods” (plural) AND can mean “of God” in the same sentence as it means “gods”… but without ANY sign of an “a”, “of,” “by,” or “to” article preceding it.

  Even MORE interesting is John 10:35 when contrasted with John 1:1. At John 1:1, there is no article (“of,” “a,” etc.) before the word “theos” to indicate the word (logos) was “a” god, or “of” god, or “the” god. And so the assumption is that “the word… was God.” Yet, even though the EXACT same thing occurs at John 10:35… the translator(s) INCLUDED the article “of” (even though it is not present in the text). So that EVEN THOUGH THE GREEK STATES “If he called them gods unto whom word God came”… such that there is NO “the” (as in “the word”) AND there is no “of” (as in “of God”)… and so, the GREEK states NEITHER “unto whom [the] word” OR “[of] God came”… SOMEONE decided those two articles should in fact GO there… but NO article should go at John 1:1.

  Which, then, are you to understand is ACCURATE? Should there BE an article in one place only? Both? Neither? Some will say “We should believe the Greek scholars.” But even THEY don’t agree. And I personally… and SPIRITUALLY… do NOT want to support ANYONE’S teaching that is not ACCURATE… whether it be in the Bible, by the WTBTS OR from anyone else. I do NOT… follow earthling man.

  So, how does one KNOW? Check with one who claims to know Greek? Tell me, how many of us who speak English would misstate an English word if not given all of the letters and/or facts? How many English speakers will misstate “words” such as, for instance “ROFL” (which some state as “ROTFL”)? In light of the progression of “technology,” it IS going to occur for the [American] English language, just as it has occurred for both Hebrew AND Greek. It is already occurring.

  So, how is one to know what John REALLY wrote and REALLY meant?

  It’s quite simple, actually – elementary, even:

  GO… TO… THE… SOURCE. GET… IT… FROM… THE… HORSE’S MOUTH.

  You believe the Bible to be inspired? Well, okay, then… WHO INSPIRED IT? Was it not God… who some of you believe to also be Christ? And how does God speak? Through WHOM does He speak?

  You believe the Bible to be SCRIPTURE? Well, okay, then… HOW IS SCRIPTURE “WRITTEN”? Through WHOM was it written?

  Why not, then… GO TO THE ONE WHO INSPIRED IT TO BEGIN WITH… BY MEANS OF THE ONE THROUGH WHOM HE INSPIRED IT… AND HAD IT WRITTEN?

  WHAT PREVENTS YOU… FROM GOING DIRECTLY TO THE SOURCE?

  You believe YOU have God’s holy spirit? Why, then, do you not go TO that Spirit… rather than to a book… an inanimate object made up of dead trees… where you can only READ what is written ABOUT that One?

  I will tell you what prevents you and why you don’t go: LACK… OF… FAITH.

  Pure and simple. Because IF YOU HAD FAITH… the size of a mustard seed… you would HEAR him… and HE would TELL you.

  And you do have faith – yet, your faith is miniscule, barely traceable… and so it is BLIND… and DEAF.

  And so, the error is entirely yours… and no one else’s. Indeed, if someone ever happened to find another set of “Dead Sea Scrolls” (or whatever)… and you found out that what you THINK you know NOW (because EARTHLING men have told you so… because EARTHLING men (“scribes,” whose acts Christ CONDEMNED… have written it so)… is NOT the truth… you will have NO ONE to blame… but yourself.

  Because the Truth… IS out there. And he IS alive. And you SAY it… you say you BELIEVE it… you BELIEVE he was raised from death… but you DON’T believe it. Because IF YOU DID… you would EXERCISE your faith in it. You… would CALL on him… in FAITH… that he would ANSWER you… because he IS alive. And because of your FAITH… that he truly IS alive… you would KNOW… that he he DOES speak. And you would hear him.

  But you don’t hear him because although you SAY he is alive… the TRUTH is that you deem him dead… yet… and so speechless. Like the FALSE gods and FALSE idols… of the earth.

  But it is you who has become DULL… in YOUR hearing. And it is NOT with reference to hearing your pastor, or your GB, or your Pope, or your reverend, your Rabbi… or your Bible. It is with reference to HEARING… the One who SPEAKS… from the HEAVENS.

  He speaks… and I HEAR him. Regardless of what YOUR lack of faith says.

  C’MON, you people!! You CAN GET THIS! You CAN!! It is NOT that hard. Neither God NOR Christ are THAT far off! Just ASK for faith where you LACK faith. And ask for him to prepare YOUR body… and excavate ears for YOU! And KEEP asking… because if you DO… it WILL be opened to you!

  May those with ears… hear and get the SENSE of these things. And may those who do not have ears to hear… come “down” from your own self-exaltation… and ASK for them!!

  COME! Take’s LIFE’S WATER… FREE! Just as the Spirit and the Bride KEEP saying!

  I bid you peace.

  A slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  lovelylil2

  AGuest,

  Thank you for that pompous sermon. I would like to know how you know exactly that YOU are the one who is not in error? Also when did our Lord elect you to judge others as to whether or not THEY have the holy spirit?

  Go learn what this means "season your words with salt".

  Your sister in Christ, Peace Lilly