"the Truth". So many changes prove they never had it.

by lurk3r 40 Replies latest jw friends

  • lurk3r
    lurk3r

    I often wondered about this when I first started questioning things.

    Any JW that has died in decades past, how are they even eligible for ressurection? During the time in which they died, they were never taught "The Truth", as everything changed.

    Any JW today, looking forward to Armageddon coming tomorrow, isn't being taught "the truth" either, as will be made manifest by more doctrinal change. By default, they will be destroyed along with the rest.

    Do you think this is a legitimate argument to make?

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    While JW's have an answer for everything (even if they happen to all be wrong answers) this is absolutely 100% common sense. It is a simple formula, the truth, the real truth, doesn't change.

    That sound you hear is either the GB's ego deflating, or a massive group GB fart. (could be one and the same....)

  • Son of Man
    Son of Man

    I often wondered about this when I first started questioning things.

    Any JW that has died in decades past, how are they even eligible for ressurection? During the time in which they died, they were never taught "The Truth", as everything changed.

    Any JW today, looking forward to Armageddon coming tomorrow, isn't being taught "the truth" either, as will be made manifest by more doctrinal change. By default, they will be destroyed along with the rest.

    Do you think this is a legitimate argument to make?


    Where does it say that only the righteous will be resurrected? There will be a resurrection of the "dead" or all that have died in the past. No single religious organization has the "truth". Many might be in search of truth but no single person knows the teachings in its entirety. Jesus Christ is our savior, he was not raised to destroy us.

    T.F.D.S.

  • Son of Man
    Son of Man

    While JW's have an answer for everything (even if they happen to all be wrong answers) this is absolutely 100% common sense. It is a simple formula, the truth, the real truth, doesn't change.

    That sound you hear is either the GB's ego deflating, or a massive group GB fart. (could be one and the same....)


    You are correct, truth does not change. However evidence to support a new way of thinking can be found and thus can change a persons beliefs. Again no single relgion has the truth.......

    You are incorrect however where you say the all of the answers provided by the JW's are all wrong. In this case you are not standing on the side of truth but are providing a biased opinion. Who are you to judge, do you have an answer to everything under the sun?

    T.F.D.S.

  • Mattieu
    Mattieu

    I had someone say to me the other day “it’s sad that you left the truth”, no doubt hoping to get the guilt feelings stirred up inside me. I nearly laughed out loud as I have been reasoning that the “truth” changes so much, that old truths become lies. So what was I leaving, “the truth” or a publishing company that keeps changing its mind to suit the dollar?

    Mattieu.

  • lurk3r
    lurk3r

    No single religious organization has the "truth".

    Son of Man - I hear you loud and clear, and moreover agree with you. However, one being a Witness, they would lean towards thinking that they are exclusive to receiving rewards from God though. Granted there is a little more "independant thinking" with the Witnesses I do know personally, and many do say that it is a "heart condition" and God will judge accordingly. This hasn't always been the case though.I was just throwing a thought out there, seeing if it was a reasonable point to hit on with JW friends of mine, come time. There is a fine line between "argumentative" and a "reasonable question" to JW's that I still associate with on some level.

    With regards your comments to ATJ. "Who are you to judge, do you have an answer to everything under the sun?". The difference is that ATJ does not profess that he is the way, and the only way.

    "evidence to support a new way of thinking can be found"

    Right you are SOM. However, that "thinking" should probably follow along a path, that still leads in one direction. Perhaps a "refinement" on that particualr "way of thinking", not so many constant flip flops. It would also help if these "new ways of thinking", did not require the religion in question to be dishonest about prior teachings.

    ATJ- Thanks for your opinion. I figured it made sense, i just thought I would put it out there and seen what came back. One great thing about debating/conversing with a Witness, is that most times, you already know what the scripted answer is gonna be. Im sure the, "its a perfect organization run by imperfect men" will make it's way out here somewhere.

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    Truth doesn't change. That is, unless something major happens that alters reality (like in the economy). But, doctrinal truth is not supposed to ever change--fully integrated honesty was best 10,000 years ago, and will still be best 10,000 years from now.

    It is possible to have a wrong or imperfect understanding of truth now. However, when one requires others to stake their very lives on what they are saying without giving them the right to cross-reference the doctrine, one is impeded from finding new information that might reveal the real truth. That is what prevents them from ever having the truth--when they need to protect a lie or suspected lie with such drastic measures, it is likely to be a scam in the first place.

  • Son of Man
    Son of Man

    With regards your comments to ATJ. "Who are you to judge, do you have an answer to everything under the sun?". The difference is that ATJ does not profess that he is the way, and the only way.

    "evidence to support a new way of thinking can be found"

    Right you are SOM. However, that "thinking" should probably follow along a path, that still leads in one direction. Perhaps a "refinement" on that particualr "way of thinking", not so many constant flip flops. It would also help if these "new ways of thinking", did not require the religion in question to be dishonest about prior teachings.


    ATJ plainly stated that all of their answers were wrong. So he has concluded and passed his own judgment on them, did he not? Jesus Christ taught us not to judge one another did he not? It is better to state the truth whereas I can testify to the fact that not all of their answers are wrong. I learned many teaching from the faith known as JW's and can say that many teachings are correct.

    When you call a teaching a doctrine, what exactly does that mean to you? It is true and I do agree that the foundation for one of their main beliefs did change. Such as the faithful slave being one man in Russels case to stating that it now included 144,000. Where in the world did they arrive with that belief or teaching?

    I am sure you might be able to provide examples of where the W.T.S. flip-flopped so-to-speak but why? Once you disagree with their teaching simply follow what you believe and let them follow theirs. This is the same as someone that is pagan. For some reason or another they chose to believe in that manner. GOD will correct the thinking of all of his creation from the heavens down to the earth.

    Do not hate your brother if they choose to believe this way or that. Hate what is bad like it is written and flea from it. However learn to love another human being with compassion. That is the teaching of GOD and His Christ is it not?

    T.F.D.S.

  • wobble
    wobble

    S.o.M,

    I think you are confusing "judgeing" with making a judgement,just because you and I have judged that the WT is not God's Organization because they never taught the truth,and still do not,that does not mean that we have judged the individuals as worthy of punishment.We do not hate the individual Witnesses.

    We hate what is bad,splitting up families,causing death by a false doctrine on the use of blood,mind-controlling people,lying etc.etc.

    Jesus said you you should worship the God of truth " in Spirit and Truth ", Paul said "What fellowship does light have with darkness". Jesus also pointed to the Pharasees and said "do as they say,(when they correctly expounded God's law) but not as they do",so if WT/JW's have got a right answer we are free to follow that,and ignore the rest of their error, whilst ,out of love,trying to free individuals from that error.The errors being established by the light from the Scriptures.

    Love

    Wobble

  • LouBelle
    LouBelle

    truth doesn't change, it can be expalined better....yes, it can be used as a foundation to build on....yes, but do a total turn around....no...for then it wasn't truth but a lie.

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