Comments you will NOT hear at the Congregation Bible Study Week Starting March 16

by LUKEWARM 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • LUKEWARM
    LUKEWARM

    -

    Here is this weeks lesson - your comments please...

    ***lvchap.2pp.19-24How CanYouMaintainaGoodConscience?***


    WHY
    CONSIDERTHECONSCIENCESOFOTHERS?


    Q12, 13. What are some reasons why Christian consciences differ, and how should we deal with such differences?
    12 You may find yourself surprised at times by the degree to which Christian consciences differ. One person finds a practice or custom objectionable; another enjoys it and sees no basis for condemning it. In the matter of social drinking, for example, one finds delight in taking a drink with a few friends as they relax together for an evening; another is troubled by the practice. Why are there such differences, and how should they affect our decisions?

    Is allowance made for individual conscience? Are JW's free to follow their own conscience?

    13 People differ for many reasons. Backgrounds vary greatly. Some, for instance, are acutely aware of a weakness that they have struggled with in the past-perhaps not always successfully. (1 Kings 8:38, 39) When it comes to alcohol, such individuals would likely feel particularly sensitive. If such a person comes to your home for a visit, his conscience may rightly move him to refuse the offer of a drink. Will you be offended? Will you insist? No. Whether you know his reasons or not-reasons that he may choose to keep private in this setting-brotherly love will move you to be considerate.

    OT example
    Q 14, 15. Over what issue did the consciences of those in the first-century congregation differ, and what did Paul recommend?
    14 The apostle Paul saw that consciences often varied widely among Christians in the first century. Back then, some Christians were troubled about certain foods that had been sacrificed to idols. (1 Corinthians 10:25) Paul's conscience did not object to such foods that were subsequently sold at markets. To him, idols were nothing; idols could never own food that originated with Jehovah and belonged to Him anyway. Yet, Paul understood that others did not share his view of this matter. Some might have been deeply involved with idolatry before becoming Christians. To them, anything even formerly connected with idolatry was offensive. The solution?

    So Paul ate meat sacrificed to idols in good conscience. Can you imagine a JW buying and consuming Easter eggs and admitting before other JW's that they do so in good conscience?

    WTS adding to the Bible again here with the "Some might" sentence...

    15 Paul said: "We, though, who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those not strong, and not to be pleasing ourselves. For even the Christ did not please himself." (Romans 15:1, 3) Paul reasoned that we should put the needs of our brothers ahead of our own, just as Christ did. In a related discussion, Paul said that he would rather not eat meat at all than stumble a precious sheep for whom Christ had given his life.-1 Corinthians 8:13; 10:23, 24, 31-33.

    Here is the guilt trip being placed on any liberal JW conscience, that of stumbling others and not pleasing ourselves. In other words, the exercise of personal conscience is viewed as something needing to be organizationally controlled.

    Q16. Why should those with a more restrictive conscience avoid judging those whose conscience differs from theirs? 16 On the other hand, those with a more restrictive conscience should not be critical of others, insisting that all view matters of conscience just as they do. (Romans 14:10) Really, the conscience is best used as an internal judge, not as a license to judge others. Remember Jesus' words: "Stop judging that you may not be judged." (Matthew 7:1) All in the congregation want to avoid making an issue of personal matters of conscience. Instead, we seek ways to promote love and unity, building one another up, not tearing one another down.-Romans 14:19.

    How arrogant for the WTS to counsel others to apply Jesus words to "Stop judging that you may not be judged" when they do so all the time.

    They write "avoid making an issue of personal matters of conscience" when they pressure the membership to engage in organizational activities and to measure up to nothing but human standards with little consideration for the individual conscience. Hypocrites!

    HOW A GOOD CONSCIENCEBRINGSBLESSINGS

    Q17. What has happened to the consciences of many today?
    17 The apostle Peter wrote: "Hold a good conscience." (1 Peter 3:16) A conscience that is clean in the sight of Jehovah God is a tremendous blessing. It is not like the consciences of so many today. Paul described those who are "marked in their conscience as with a branding iron." (1 Timothy 4:2) A branding iron sears the flesh, leaving it scarred and insensitive. Many have a conscience that is, in effect, dead-so scarred and insensitive that it no longer sends out warnings, protests, or pangs of shame or guilt over wrongdoing. "Good riddance," many today seem to say to such feelings as guilt.

    A subconscious warning to the obedient JW to question their conscience - make sure its clean in the sight of God as defined by the WTS

    Q 18, 19. (a) Feelings of guilt or shame may have what value? (b) What can we do if our conscience continues to punish us for past sins for which we have already repented?
    18 In truth, feelings of guilt can be the conscience's way of telling us that we have done wrong. When such feelings move a sinner to repent, even the worst of sins may be forgiven. King David, for example, became guilty of grave wrongdoing but was forgiven largely because of his sincere repentance. His hatred of his wrong course and his determination to obey Jehovah's laws from then on led him to see firsthand that Jehovah is "good and ready to forgive." (Psalm 51:1-19; 86:5) What, though, if intense feelings of guilt and shame persist after we have repented and have received forgiveness?

    Did David need to confess his sins to elders and did they need to discern his repentance?

    19 Sometimes the conscience can be overly punitive, beating a sinner with guilt long after such feelings stop serving any useful purpose. In such cases, we may need to assure the self-condemning heart that Jehovah is greater than all human feelings. We need to believe in and accept his love and forgiveness, just as we encourage others to do. (1 John 3:19, 20) On the other hand, a cleansed conscience brings inner peace, serenity, and a profound joy that is rarely found in this world. Many who were once involved in serious sin have experienced this marvelous relief and are able today to hold a good conscience as they serve Jehovah God.-1 Corinthians 6:11.

    Only by allowing the WTS - a human religious authority - to deciding matters which should rest with the individuals conscience, can the JW's experience "...a profound joy that is rarely found in this world"

    Q20, 21. (a) What is this publication designed to help you to do? (b) As Christians, we enjoy what freedom, yet how should we use it?
    20 This book is designed to help you find that joy, to hold a good conscience throughout the rest of these troubled last days of Satan's system of things. Of course, it cannot cover all of the Bible's laws and principles that you need to think about and apply in the situations that arise day by day. Furthermore, do not expect simple, black-and-white rules on matters of conscience. The purpose of this book is to help you educate and sensitize your conscience by studying how to apply God's Word in your daily life. Unlike the Mosaic Law, "the law of the Christ" invites its adherents to live more by conscience and principle than by written rules. (Galatians 6:2) Jehovah thus entrusts Christians with extraordinary freedom. However, his Word reminds us never to use that freedom as "a blind for badness." (1 Peter 2:16) Rather, such freedom affords us a marvellous opportunity to express our love for Jehovah.

    So the purpose of the publication is to allow the WTS to "help...educate and sensitize your conscience by studying how to apply God's Word in your daily life." In other words the WTS expects JW's to relinquish to them their God given right to exercise their own conscience to do their own thinking and to arrive at conclusions that are truly their own
    They pay lip service to the Bibles teaching that "the law of the Christ" involves living by "conscience and principle than by written rules" as they have imposed their views on an individual's conscience - organizational laws dictate to peoples conscience thereby superseding the bible

    Wonder how much "freedom" the JW's really feel as the WTS lord it over their consciences

    21 By prayerfully considering how best to live by Bible principles and then putting your decisions to work, you will continue a vital process that began when you first came to know Jehovah. Your "perceptive powers" will be trained "through use." (Hebrews 5:14) Your Bible-trained conscience will be a blessing to you every day of your life. Like the compass that guides the traveller, your conscience will help you to make decisions that please your heavenly Father. This is a sure way to keep yourself in God's love.

    By mortgaging their conscience to WTS, the JW's end up with a "Bible-trained conscience"


    Lukewarm

  • WTWizard
    WTWizard

    I don't see how they can call it a "conscience matter" when they have rules against stumbling others. You listen to music, and someone might be stumbled (never mind that they would have to pry into your business in order to find out that it is slightly "bad"). You eat Christmas or Easter candy, they are stumbled. Someone goes in from field circus because they have to go to work, someone is stumbled into thinking it's acceptable to take a time out from field circus for necessary things. And so on.

  • wobble
    wobble

    Interesting too, that the WT never point out that Paul was writing to the Corinthians,so the meat for sale in the market would not have been bled in the way that Jews were used to,yet Paul was happy to eat it.

    How great it is to be free of the WT and exercise ones own (Christian if you are one) conscience !

    Love

    Wobble

  • blondie
    blondie

    The WTS has a Catch 22 when it comes to "conscience." If even just one or non-jw would be "stumbled" no matter how ridiculous their position, you can't do it. And there are always those invisible, unnamed stumblers. So you really have to follow the choices others, in many cases, the choice of one person in the congregation.

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    it is truly BIZARRE that hey openly state that Paul in good conscience broke the unbreakable rule (for which thousands of JWs have died) in Acts 15: 29.

    The first (and most important presumably) is "abstain from things sacrificed to idols."

    If Paul could do this and not be shunned, why does a JW who takes a blood transfusion get DF??

    HB

  • dismayed
    dismayed

    Unlike the Mosaic Law, "the law of the Christ" invites its adherents to live more by conscience and principle than by written rules.

    Biggest lie in this lesson. Nobody inserts more "written" and "unwritten" rules into their religion. Later on in the book they have a section on holiday, birthdays, etc. In that section they lay out why "True Christians" shouldn't participate in toasting.

    So lame.

  • hamsterbait
    hamsterbait

    They even quote Romans 14 but cannily avoid verse 5 and 6 which shows that celebrating certain days and festivals is up to the individual and should not be condemned.

    If you celebrate a festival after becoming a Christian you celebrate it "to Jehovah" (Colossians 2:16)

    So I can celebrate my birthday "to Jehovah", Christmas "to Jehovah", Easter "to Jehovah", Mother's day, Father's day, thanksgiving. And like Paul violate the directive of Acts 15: 29 in good conscience!!

    After all - I am celebrating it in honor of the WTBTS stone-age Death God, not Jesus ( the "Lord" Paul actually meant in Romans 14)

    See how fast they drag you in front of a kangaroo JC and DF you!

    HB

  • Doubting Bro
    Doubting Bro

    I'm always surprised by the amount of nerve it takes for the WTS writers to write some of this stuff. To the average JW, conscience matters are things that the WTS doesn't want you to do but won't DF you over. As a matter of fact, anytime they move something (like organ transplants, blood "fractions") from DFing to conscience matters, its interpreteted by the rank & file as being "ok now".

    Unlike the Mosaic Law, "the law of the Christ" invites its adherents to live more by conscience and principle than by written rules. (Galatians 6:2) Jehovah thus entrusts Christians with extraordinary freedom. However, his Word reminds us never to use that freedom as "a blind for badness." (1 Peter 2:16)

    This is the funniest statement of the whole section. The written rules put out by the WTS are just as bad as the written rules put out by the Jewish leaders. If you think that's hyperbole, then read the brochure on appropriate dress and grooming for visiting Bethel. Yes, God would be very offended if you don't wear a suit to a book publishing factory!

  • Mrs. Fiorini
    Mrs. Fiorini

    Hamsterbait makes an exceptional point that I had not realized until now. The "rules" laid out in Acts 15:29, the scripture they use to insist that blood transfusions are wrong for Christians today, were considered a conscience matter by none other than the apostle Paul!

    How can they possibly say that taking a blood transfusion is anything but a conscience matter for JWs?

    I am astounded!!

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    Lukewarm, Thanks for starting this discussion! This is truly some terrible writing, starting with the first paragraphs.

    They use the example of social drinking. That is NOT a good example of something being a conscience matter. Even "worldly" people recognize that fact. Really, is it simply a conscience matter for someone to relax with friends and having a drink of alcohol? Is it simply a conscience matter if that someone has had a couple of drinks, and a couple more, then get in their car and drive to work as an airline pilot? Obviously, the police, the FAA, and the judicial committee will tell you it wasn't a conscience matter. If someone is on certain medication and kicking back alcohol, is it a "conscience matter"? I have three words for you... Karen Ann Quinlan. If someone is on meds, pregnant, UNDERAGE, or in any way shouldn't consume alcohol, "yes" it is their choice, perhaps. But right and wrong are clearly involved. Harsh consequences may follow. Sure Jesus and his homeys drank "Jesus juice" when they were laying around together, but they didn't drive home afterward. Most of them didn't have jobs, either.

    Drinking or not drinking milk is a conscience matter.

    Hammy B. already well covered how Paul went against the decision of the "Governing Body" in Acts chap. 15, made two years earlier (I think, don't have my references here). Further, when you combine what Paul says in 1 Cor. with Romans chap. 15, he calls those who, like him, partake of food sacrificed to idols "strong", but he calls those who "abstain from food sacrificed to idols" as having "the weaknesses of those not strong". And remember, that was the same "Governing Body" that decided that Christians need not be circumcised and the same Paul that a couple of verses later in Acts 16, was lifting Timothy's robes to personally circumcise his "little timothy". For some reason, Paul didn't really agree with the "first century Governing Body".

    Blondie, you are right on the mark. I know of one extraordinary case where a really good brother was removed as an elder and nearly dragged before a JC because some unnamed persons, or maybe just "person", were "stumbled" by something he did... or actually "allowed", but didn't do himself. But that didn't matter, they really do LOVE to judge.

    They can't resist bring up King David in para. 18:

    King David, for example, became guilty of grave wrongdoing but was forgiven largely because of his sincere repentance. His hatred of his wrong course and his determination to obey Jehovah's laws from then on led him to see firsthand that Jehovah is "good and ready to forgive."

    Wait just a minute, let me throw out a name here... Abishag. Right, David lusts after Bathsheba, kills her husband, but then tires of her and needs a new young plaything to "keep him warm". "Repentant" King David was obedient to Jehovah's laws by pawing on a girl young enough to be his granddaughter. Would you allow "obedient" King David to be in your congregation, in your home, or pawing your daughter? Yeah, "It's good to be the King!"

    B the X

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