Personal experiences can not be used as a viable argument, it's PERSONAL so how can someone say you are wrong? I for one can say a get a "spiritual" high when I'm free diving at 85 feet or when I am alone in the forest and the wind is blowing through the leaves and I can taste the air. I have so many example like this. If there is a god that's when I can feel him/her/it but then again it's just a feeling so who knows...
Why I am an atheist
by Awakened at Gilead 129 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Awakened at Gilead
awakened: Yes fjtoth, that is exactly what I am saying.
fjtoth: So, which is it? First you say it's "ignorance" period, and now you say it's ignorance concerning evolution.
Look at my posts. I am merely saying that you have demonstrated ignorance regarding evolution. I am not calling you ignorant. There are many things that I am ignorant about, as can be said about anyone. When did I say "ignorance, period"?
You stated that you did not agree with blind chance. That is the same argument that the WT uses:
*** w05 2/1 p. 6 How Precious Is Your Life? ***
Do not be misled by the assertions of people who deny that there is a Creator. According to them, blind, impersonal forces of nature made you.
*** g79 1/8 p. 6 Convincing Evidence From Sound Reasoning ***
How did all this precision and complexity arise? Is it the result of “blind chance” operating over billions and billions of years?
*** g90 1/22 p. 11 Fraud in Science—The Greatest Fraud of All ***
‘But does not this leave life on earth without a Creator-Designer?’ you ask. ‘None needed,’ evolutionists answer. ‘It is in the lap of chance. Blind chance is the designer. We call it Natural Selection.’
This last quote totally misleads the reader into thinking that some evolutionist actually says that we are the product of blind chance. Natural Selection is NOT blind chance. Anyone who makes that claim is ignorant (IMHO) of the processes that are behind the theory of evolution.
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digderidoo
Hi Lance,
What i find hard to understand about your channel, is that if you are an atheist then why do you use the bible to critique JW's?
Surely by representing an alternative biblical argument to a JW is futile if you do not believe that yourself? It's like using one set of lies to rebut another set of lies.
Paul
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donny
Over the years I have come to realize that folks regardless of their political or religious persuasion fall into people "types" which has a large effect on their beliefs and behavior.
One thing that I have realized over this time is that folks who are on the far left and the far right are actually the same "types" of folks; people who, for whatever reason, cannot see any viewpoint as legit other than their own narrow view. The left and rights of these are really the same kind of folks, they have just chosen to use opposite ends of the political and/ or religous spectrum to express their ideology.
The person on the left who vandalizes "gas guzzlers" and other eco-unfriendly cars at a car lot or who blows up a lab or building they believe is used for animal testing for the benefit of humans is the same "type" as the person on the right who vandalizes places of worship other than his persuasion or blows up abortion clinics.
The person on the left who opposes any mention of religion at all is the same "type" as the one on the right who thinks their religion should be incorporated into every aspect of our lives.
The person on the left who has seen extra-terrestrials or been kidnapped by them is the same "type" as the one on the right who has seen angels, Mary or Jesus or has been temporarily been "caught-up" and given a preview of heaven.The person on the left who thinks the government is involved in various conspiracies to incorporate a theocracy or some type of religious belief system is the same type as the one on the far right who thinks the powers that be is going to declare any belief is forbidden.
And the person on the left who thinks that when one of it's own gets caught up in some kind of scandal that it has to be a right-wing conspiracy is the same "type" as the one on the right who does the same except they substitute "right-wing " with "left-wing" or "liberal."While I am open to change my mind, I currently do not believe in any god, any visits by extra-terrestrials, or any of the many government conspiracy claims from both the left and right, because I have yet to come across any credible evidence for any of them.
Don
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OnTheWayOut
What i find hard to understand about your channel, is that if you are an atheist then why do you use the bible to critique JW's?
Surely by representing an alternative biblical argument to a JW is futile if you do not believe that yourself? It's like using one set of lies to rebut another set of lies.
Paul
While Lance will give his own answer, let me chime in.
I learned that JW's think they represent the truth within the Bible. I have learned that they manipulate the Bible.
I have learned that the Bible is contradictory. It is easy to manipulate by choosing select scriptures and ignoring others, and by arguing over the intent of the ancient words such as "parousia."Even though one may have dismissed the Bible as the word of God, it is still useful to demonstrate to believers that they are not using the book accurately.
Luke 5: 23-24- Is it easier to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up and walk'? But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins,"-- He said to the paralytic-- "I say to you, get up, and pick up your stretcher and go home."
Now, which is easier to help a believer, especially a JW? To say the Bible is fairytales or to say that "You don't have the truth." ?
Easier to demonstrate the lack of truth to the believer, or to examine them by their own standard, then to afterward show them why it is so easy to reveal their lack of truth by their Bible because the Bible is fairytales.Plus, Jw's use the Bible to condemn everyone else, so it is important to show them how it can condemn them.
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digderidoo
Now, which is easier to help a believer, especially a JW? To say the Bible is fairytales or to say that "You don't have the truth." ?
Easier to demonstrate the lack of truth to the believer, or to examine them by their own standard, then to afterward show them why it is so easy to reveal their lack of truth by their Bible because the Bible is fairytales.I guess then that the question then comes as to what is Lance's agenda in disproving the JW's as far as the bible is concerned. I have always been able to see why someone who believes in another version of scripture would want to disprove an alternative view, such as JW's, mormons or whoever. Their agenda is to 'save their life'. I cannot however understand why an atheist would want to represent an alternative scriptural view on a point.
Plus, Jw's use the Bible to condemn everyone else, so it is important to show them how it can condemn them.
I can see that point of view, but isn't that just tit for tat? It's as if you're saying they knock me with the bible, so i'll knock them. So again it comes down to the agenda.
Paul
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inkling
Everywhere I look, I see God's masterful handiwork.
[inkling]
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leavingwt
Paul,
As for my own views, I would rather JWs leave WT and be a member of ANY religion that is not a destructive cult.
They could throw a dart at an org chart of religions and make a better selection.
A non-believer trying to rescue someone from the grips of a destructive cult is a noble effort, to me, even if one tool they use is a different interpretation of Scripture that they do not subscribe to.
If I were trying to persuade an Islamic suicide bomber to re-think his suicide mission, would it be proper to point him to passages in the Koran that I don't personally believe? I think so, if these passages in the Koran would influence him to turn away from his violent plan.
-LWT
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Awakened at Gilead
What i find hard to understand about your channel, is that if you are an atheist then why do you use the bible to critique JW's?
Surely by representing an alternative biblical argument to a JW is futile if you do not believe that yourself? It's like using one set of lies to rebut another set of lies.
If you want to discuss a JWs beliefs, you must use what they believe in. They believe in the Bible and the WT pubs.
Think about it... on this board, how many times do we quote WT pubs? Do we believe them? No! But we can quote the WT to show what is wrong with their beliefs.
Furthermore, my channel is describing my exodus from the WT... the angle is: What made a Gilead student question the WT? The answer is that the Bible did... I saw that the Bible had a message distanct from the WT... so that is the angle in my vids. There is no contradiction.
I make no secret of my atheism in YouTube. I have also indicated that once I finish my set of videos about my exit from the Watchtower, I will fiollow up with a set of videos about why I became atheist... I will also use the Bible in these, ala "Scriptures for an atheist exJW"...
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Awakened at Gilead
OTWO:Now, which is easier to help a believer, especially a JW? To say the Bible is fairytales or to say that "You don't have the truth." ?
Easier to demonstrate the lack of truth to the believer, or to examine them by their own standard, then to afterward show them why it is so easy to reveal their lack of truth by their Bible because the Bible is fairytales.Paul:I guess then that the question then comes as to what is Lance's agenda in disproving the JW's as far as the bible is concerned. I have always been able to see why someone who believes in another version of scripture would want to disprove an alternative view, such as JW's, mormons or whoever. Their agenda is to 'save their life'. I cannot however understand why an atheist would want to represent an alternative scriptural view on a point.
OTWO:Plus, Jw's use the Bible to condemn everyone else, so it is important to show them how it can condemn them.
Paul:I can see that point of view, but isn't that just tit for tat? It's as if you're saying they knock me with the bible, so i'll knock them. So again it comes down to the agenda.
Again, I am sharing my personal journey. In my videos I make it clear that "when I arrived at these conclusions at Gilead, I was scared to question the truth".
What is my agenda? To help people out of the mind control. Since making my videos 2 months ago, which have garnered 18,000 views already, I have received a number of emails and messages from JWs and ExJWs thanking me for them. Several have indicated that I had nmore credibility in their eyes than a R&F JW since I was a Gilead missionary.
My aim is not to get active diehard dubbies out... the people I hope to help are:
1. Doubting JWs (a number of whom have told me how helpful my few vids have been)
2. DFd JWs, who may be either trying to go back or living with the guilt
3. Inactive JWs, who again are living with guilt
4. ExJWs such as yourself who no longer believe in the WTS, and enjoy watching vids that debunk the WTS, perhaps from a different perspective.
The diehard obedient dub should NOT be on YouTube, and therefore are not my target. Dubs who watch my video are likely secretly in category #1 above, and thus will be helped by my vids along with a multitude of other resources.
I also am writing a book, and by having created these videos, I hope to create an audience for the book which will help to disseminate increased consciousness about what is wrong with the WTS.
Does being an atheist in some way disqualify me from discussing the Bible?
FYI, when I was doubting JWs, an atheist in my college classes presented some scriptures that I had a hard time defending as a JW. His efforts played an important role in my exit. I wish to do the same service for my fellow bOrg members who wish to leave the cult.
Cheers!