Born again JW's?

by free2beme 46 Replies latest jw friends

  • poppers
    poppers
    Now I can understand where your coming from all that meditation, took over your brain just like the WT took over mine. But I am FREE from HAVING to listen to ANY man(((HUG)))

    Notice how you've come to a conclusion about me based on ideas you have about meditation. By the way, my formal practice of meditation is long behind me - I found that even ideas/beliefs about that are limiting so I no longer practice it. I am free of everything. By the way, what does being 81 have to do with what I'm talking about? I am glad you are happy with where you are, many are not. (((Hugs back to you.)))

  • mouthy
    mouthy

    By the way, what does being 81

    Well you said I should get a life in so many words .Or that is the way I viewed your comment I have HAD a life am now waiting for death

  • poppers
    poppers
    Well you said I should get a life in so many words

    Wow, at no time did such a thought even enter my head. This illustrates how beliefs affect interaction with others.

  • Brother Apostate
    Brother Apostate
    I am not trying to offend anyone here, but even with the points shared; I still se what I said to be the case. You left the religion and took one thought and replaced it with another.

    Actually, the only way that you don't take one thought and replace it with another is:

    (a) if you know you are absolutely 100% correct about that thought.

    (b) you have stopped thinking due to massive substance abuse, brain damage, or death.

    So, again, when you point a finger, there are three pointing back at you.

    It is not with one thought that another should be perpetually replaced. We should all continue to strive for knowlege and truth. That striving never involves resting on our laurels pronouncing that we "now have the truth". We are to continually test our beliefs and readjust them whenever necessary. All true Christians, born-again, are admonished to do so. So should all who are not.

    I guess I would be more willing to accept people who went in to a less "overly zealous" religious form, that was not as hard to swallow as the born again stuff.

    Why would/should anyone be less than zealous for what they regard as life-saving truth? To do otherwise would demonstrate a lack of love for neighbor. What is so hard to swallow about the three Scriptural admonitions that one must be born again?

    John 3:3- In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. "

    John 3:7- You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'

    1 Peter 1:23- For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

    Where is the difficulty?

    My sister is attending a local Christian church now, and used to be a Witness. She does not use any of that annoying language and phrases and just seems more down to earth. Which is what I kind of would expect from a person who left the religion, which is to see the nonesense in such comments and hard line of thinking.

    Not sure what annoying language and phrases you refer to, please be specific. If it can't be found in the Scriptures, then it's not Scriptural. If it's not Scriptural, it's not Christian.

    The only people I have ever known, who said they talked to Christ ... were nuts. I mean it, stone cold nut balls. So to then back down and say it is spoken too, when read in the Bible, does that mean God speak to you when he talks about murders, and killing people too?

    If someone believes they spoke to Christ, yet can not demonstrate so by means of a miracle, prophecy that comes true, or some other means that would prove so, then it will/should be regarded as hearsay.

    John 4:1- Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

    Anyway, the thing is, it seems so plain and simple to me to see that the born again and ultra Christian thinking, that I see in some former Witnesses, is a replacement for the Witness mind set and I am so glad every day; I never fell in to that trap and hope those who did, break free of it one day.

    Labeling, stereotyping and hasty over-generalizations seem to be your mantra. What is "born again thinking"? How about "ultra Christian thinking"? Is there some common (presumably objectionable) set of thought(s) that in your mind define such people?

    How is it that you are so certain that you have not fallen into a trap, and that you are actually a poster-child for the saying "there's none so blind as those who will not see"?

    Although, I do understand, when you have fewer days ahead then behind ... what ever makes your mind feel good, go for it.

    That should have little or nothing to do with our serach for truth and the meaning of life. Any of us could get run over by a bus before the sun sets again. Giving up out of apathy after having been led down the wrong path by men in Brooklyn is hardly a good reason for turning away from a loving Creator who simply desires acknowledgement of His grace that has been extended to all that will accept it.

    BA- There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death. - Proverbs 14:12

  • Brother Apostate
    Brother Apostate
    I am free of everything.

    Wow, that is one of the most self-aggrandizing, deluded, statements I have ever seen in writing.

    BA

  • poppers
    poppers

    What I am free of is every belief I once held about myself. That's not self-aggrandizing, it's freedom from belief in self as a real entity apart from ideas of self. With that realization comes a great sense of peace and wholeness - pretty simple really. I highly recommend it.

  • Brother Apostate
    Brother Apostate
    What I am free of is every belief I once held about myself. That's not self-aggrandizing, it's freedom from belief in self as a real entity apart from ideas of self.

    That is worlds apart from what you stated earlier, saying what you mean and meaning what you say is ever so important in the written word.

    To put it another way, are you saying that all we are is a sum total of what we believe? Are ideas real? Do we exist? There is no "self"?

    BA-

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Your mind is still doing the same thing, which is not accepting this life for the jewel it is and making the most of it.

    Christianity is not the enemy of man, nor of the precious jeweled gift of human life.

    On the contrary, it is an instrument that confers upon us the possibility of fulfilling ourselves completely in life, to a level far beyond the highest levels of greatness which reason alone can allow us to experience.

    In Christianity humans are raised to the exalted dignity of God's Son. God dwells within us, and we are raised as His children in a rebirth, a resurrection.

    In an intimate participation in the divine life we become greater rather than smaller, freer rather than more enslaved, nobler rather than more petty, more serene rather than more tormented.

    The Christian is one who--knowing that he is infinitely loved by God-- knows that he has become infinitely great through the very act of love granted through Christ.

    And that causes the heart to burst into a song of perfect joy.

    As you mention X-JW Born Again Christians are indeed replacing one thing with another: chains with wings.

    Pax

    BTS

  • poppers
    poppers

    Yes, the written word has its limitations, and the reader has its perspective in how to interpret those words. Lots of misunderstanding follows that, sometimes to the point of violence.

    <div class="quote">To put it another way, are you saying that all we are is a sum total of what we believe? Are ideas real? Do we exist? There is no "self"?</div>

    Ideas are just ripples of consciousness arising out of awareness; this is what creates the mind. Those ideas are constantly changing. A subset of those ideas create the sense of a separate and distinct entity known as "me", and it's that "me" that gets identified with. It's that sense of me that holds itself apart from everyone and everything else.

    But if investigated it will be found there is no "me" aside from those <em>ideas</em> of "me". So what does that leave you with? Aside from ideas of "me" what am "I"? People for the most part live their lives in their mind only, so yes, they are the sum total of what they believe. And then they view everything outside themselves through the lens of those beliefs. But when those beliefs of "me" are seen for what they are there can be a letting go of identification with the me. Then mind no longer dominates life and one can see clearly and without the distortion that mind/me creates. This is deeply peaceful and what was once seen as separate is no longer seen that way. This is the wholeness I've mentioned, and from that sense of wholeness there no longer arises a <em>belief<em> that something must be done, some "authority" must be followed, or some "holy" book's tenets must be adhered to in order to feel and live a life in peace. So this is an "unconditional" peace that never leaves.

    When living life from this wholeness suffering no longer is a part of life. This doesn't mean there won't be circumstances that aren't challenging, but those circumstances will no longer throw you back into living totally from the mind and the limiting belief structures that were formally identified with. It is those belief structures that create discontent, which then leads to misery, suspicion and fear of other, and finally violence.

    But none of this will change your life if you only believe it; instead <em>you must see it for yourself</em>. You must look honestly and sincerely, and this takes courage and persistence. Most people when challenged to do this will retreat in fear and cling to what's familiar. But those who are motivated to look honestly and can see beyond their fear will discover something life-changing. Those people who are no longer satisfied with dusty books, "holy" ones, and following what was taught to them by well-meaning but equally mislead people will find something in their midst right here, right now, that is precious beyond description.

  • free2beme
    free2beme

    What I have learned in talking to those who have turned to "Ultra Christian and Born Again Faiths*" is that they act in the same manner as Witnesses do. Often displaying the same traits, only with a new label. At the same time, they strongly do not get what I am saying and often become very defensive to a topic; like the one I am bringing up. As they want people to think, "I have found joy" and yet I feel that inside themselves lives the doubt of knowing that they see what I am saying and are just to afraid to change. Let's face it, like minded people that dwell together become normal in their sect and to see another's perspective can and will be confusing. I wish I could take these people and some how open their eyes, but often when I look in to their eyes I see the empty shell behind the mind and realize that their path back will have to be self driven and not one pushed upon them by another.

    I personally feel, as life grows in complex ways with technology and social changes. The simpleness of Christian faiths, with it's unchallenged blind faith that can be bent to fit any equation, as long as you know what to highlight and what to omit. Will always have a place for the person who is not willing to look deeper. At the same time, Christianity like so many other faiths, has at it's core the common thoughts of love and morals (Not something in Christianity only, although it loves to think so) and because of that, I do not dislike the faith. I just find myself sickened at the Ultra Christians and Born Again ones. Maybe it is just because I am controlled by Satan, right? LOL Sorry, I had to add that, as it is the excuse or thought I have seen so much throughout history, when it comes to challenges of the Christian faith.

    * - refers to people who are always talking religion, talking about being saved, talking about finding Christ, and just plain talking too damn much about religion. (Also, quote Bible scripture more then they express their own thoughts)

    Side note - Even the Devil and Demons are suppose to be able to quote scripture, as if they were real they would have seen it for far longer then any of us. So the ability to quote scripture well, and prolific, does not make one better then another. I could quote scripture too, as a Pioneer and Ministerial Servant I knew them well. I, however, reach within and hear my own inner spirit talking and quote myself, for I am the experience of my days and the foundation of knowledge I have feed it.

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