Supernaturalism and reason.

by Narkissos 36 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Narkissos

  Reading one more time (on the umpteenth thread about the 70 weeks of Daniel, into which I'm not going again) the idea that "anti-supercalifragilnaturalistic bias" ruin the unbelievers' (or misbelievers') exegesis of Bible texts, and readily admitting to such... bias, I have one very general and simple question which might be worth its own thread.

  Here it is:

  Once you admit such thing as the "supernatural",
  on what grounds can you assess anything(and I mean anything)
  as:
  - impossible
  - almost impossible
  - very unlikely
  - less likely
  - more likely
  - most likely
  - almost certain
  - certain?

  Seriously.
• 

  Midget-Sasquatch

  IMHO, I don't think one could assign any degree of likelihood to anything supernatural.

  Our natural world, regardless of each of our own personal subjectivities, is a concrete objective reality that is manifest and can be probed with tangible results. Going beyond that tangible puts us into the untestable. There's no productive dialectic. I haven't found any manifestation of the supernatural in which I've been able to consistently get certain responses from certain actions.

  Edit: And on the other side of the coin. Being agnostic, I also can't with any certainty say there exists nothing beyond what we understand as natural. After all, even with regards to whats natural, theoretical physicists talk about multiple dimensions to our universe. Now 4 of them I can directly attest to interacting with. Not so with the others. There's even less I can say about the supernatural.
• 

  quietlyleaving

  nark

  Once you admit such thing as the "supernatural",
  on what grounds can you assess anything(and I mean anything)
  as:
  - impossible
  - almost impossible
  - very unlikely
  - less likely
  - more likely
  - most likely
  - almost certain
  - certain?

  its impossible to reasonably assess an interpretation once we admit such a thing as the "supernatural". Circular reasoning in classic JW style is the outcome.

  At least the ancient Greeks allowed for their god stories to be reinterpreted to extract and update moral lessons and values . Why can't we do that with the bible? There is a wealth of information there but we mustn't limit ourselves to circular reasoning becasue it seeks to exclude and de-humanise.

  ql
• 

  LittleToe

  Nothing is impossible, nothing is certain. I can apply my limited reason to what I think is likely, but I'm probably in error to a greater or lesser margin in that as well. Meanwhile I might as well get out there on that tightrope of life because there's no other way of getting from this side of the big top to the other...

  "Life is a journey... might as well be pleasant to the other travellers, as it goes a lot slower when everyone is grumpy!"
• 

  quietlyleaving

  "Life is a journey... might as well be pleasant to the other travellers, as it goes a lot slower when everyone is grumpy!"
• 

  Caedes

  Probably the only thing I am certain of is that there is nothing supernatural.
• 

  hillary_step

  Narkissos,

  I concur. The 'supernatural' allows for any, and I mean any, manipulation of reality, truth and science. I suspect that this is a major reason that religions, whose fuel is the supernatural, survive beyond reason.

  The ultimate 'supernatural' position, when all else fails? How do we know that God did not create everything four seconds ago and instill age and history, including our memories into the universe.

  How do we know that he does not repeat this action every four seconds as a game to amuse the angels?

  HS
• 

  myelaine

  dear hillary-step...

  "How do we know that he does not repeat this action every four seconds as a game to amuse the angels?"

  We know that ultimately, matters such as life and death, are not funny. God is serious about these matters too...He sent His Son for us to live.

  love michelle
• 

  BurnTheShips

  How do we know that he does not repeat this action every four seconds as a game to amuse the angels?

  Who argues that he does such a thing?

  Burn
• 

  Gopher

  We know that ultimately, matters such as life and death, are not funny.

  Yes, indeed. The humor was to illustrate a point (and HS wasn't talking about "death" here).

  God is serious about these matters too...He sent His Son for us to live.

  You may really believe the above to be true statements about the supernatural. However, they are assertions that are not accepted by all, and cannot be proven -- only believed.

  Other beliefs are a lot more dangerous, as I'm sure you know. That is the point of this thread. Supernaturalism can lead towards unreasoning belief and extremism, and how can you prove any extreme (or not-so-extreme) "belief" to be wrong?