Universal Soverienty

by emptywords 13 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • emptywords
    emptywords

    One of the biggest tests for me when learning with the JW was why God permitted wickedness, suffering, cruelty ect..

    They say because of the issue involving Jehovah'suniversal soverienty, Satans challenge to Gods right to rule..Gen 3:15. and how we are all involved in this issue (Job)

    Also people will have to know I am Jehovah (Ezekiel 36:23: 39:7) the sanctification of Gods name is placed as the highest importance for the issue of U. S.

    I have always had a problem with this, as for me I can't understand how God could allow so much cruelty just to prove Satan a liar and through inhereted sin we to are involved in this because Adam was our fleshly father. Does this sound egotistical to you, or am I really evil for even thinking that there is something wrong with all this.

    So do you see a connection with " why God has allowed wickedness, and the issue of his Universal Soverienty".

  • nvrgnbk
    nvrgnbk

    Nope. I never could understand the connection.

    But I sure did a marvelous job of explaining it to others. LOL!

    Good topic emptywords.

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    The question of evil has been around for centuries.

    Isn't it wonderful that the JW's came up with such a simple answer to one of life's greatest puzzlements?

    Like most simple answers, it raises more questions than it resolves.

    The universe shouldn't have to go through millenia of suffering and waiting to prove a simple point: that a Creator should be able to designate what is right and wrong.

    That can't really be the answer to the problem of evil. It's just another attempt by religion to give a sense of comfort by providing an easy answer.

  • bigdreaux
    bigdreaux

    i had a buddie ask me, "metro, do ya really think the world is so horrible because a snake got a woman to eat an apple?" very simple question, very simple answer.

  • Vernon Williams
    Vernon Williams

    This is another "hand me a puke bag" topic:

    The soverienty of God was NEVER in dispute. NEVER, never, never....

    The Creator has ALWAYS been in total and complete charge of all things.

    This "soverienty" issue is only an issue with the JWs. They are, of course, spirtually insane, so....

    On the allowance of evil: my take: it makes no sense to me, however, CS Lewis, in his book "Mere Christianity" gives the best explanation I have heard or read to date.

    Get the book, a glass of tea, and enjoy.

    V

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    This teaching was invented by Rutherford. He was a lawyer. So OF COURSE he would explain a classic theological problem in legal terms, construing theodicy as involving a heavenly court case.

  • Hortensia
    Hortensia

    yes, the whole idea of everyone suffering just to make some legalistic point for god has never made sense to me. Adam and Eve were disobedient, therefore EVERYONE has to die, and god's favorite son has to go through this ritual execution just to prove the point that god wins. It makes no sense at all!

  • LtCmd.Lore
    LtCmd.Lore

    The concept fails on every level.

    1: The whole point is to prove that God can successfully rule humans. By having us rule ourselves that proves absolutely nothing about gods abilities.

    2: The challenge was made while humans where perfect, while disease didn't exist, while the ground was not cursed, and while animals where not carnivorous. But God changed all that... God cheated! That's like me telling my parents that I am able to take care of myself, and they say: "Wanna bet?" and I say: "Sure"... Then they break my legs and throw me in a 50ft deep snake infested pit! The challenge is void.

    3: The humans actually DID manage to take care of themselves DESPITE god rigging the challenge... thus the Tower of Babel... they were succeeding! Then god cheated again. (Genesis 11:6) . . .Look! They are one people and there is one language for them all, and this is what they start to do. Why, now there is nothing that they may have in mind to do that will be unattainable for them. . .

    4: The few times that God actually did show off his leadership skills, he failed miserably. He screwed up in eden, he screwed up Israel, and even a third of his angels would rather DIE than continue under his rule.
    Not even HE could rule humans in the state he put them in. Israel rejected him over and over again, saying they were better off in Egypt... God eventually had to elect a HUMAN ruler for Israel! (And that went pretty well, untill he started interfering again. ironic)

    God accepted the challenge, cheated, started to lose, then cheated again, and failed anyway. And we're supposed to believe he'll actually get it right in the new system?

    If Satan existed I'd be thanking him for being the ONLY one to defend the human race. (Did you ever stop to wonder what Satan wanted out of the situation? Unless he really thought that god was a bad ruler and wanted to help us, there was no reason for him to do what he did. He made the ultimate sacrifice on OUR behalf.)

    Here's how the challenge SHOULD have been carried out: Leave everyone perfect! Split the planet up into two sections, the people who obey god, and the people that don't. You gain nothing by obeying god, except a better leader. That was the challenge right? That nobody would serve god unless they had something to gain... like everlasting life.

    If the majority of perfect people decided to serve god simply because he's a good ruler or out of gratitude, then god wins. Simple as that.

    (Although I doubt ANYONE would choose to eat one type of food forever, wander around in a desert, sacrifice an animal every week, not have sex, etc. Unless they had the carrot of everlasting life along with it.)

    Lore

  • Hannah
    Hannah

    Ah, yes. The issue of universal sovereignty. Like almighty God himself has to prove anything to anyone! Just imagine if our governments and judicial systems ran things the same way.

    Why is it that all of humankind must suffer for millenniums just because a woman, who was perfect, spoke to a serpent (like this happened all the time) and was coerced into eating a fruit. Makes no sense. Why not give us all the same chance Eve had instead of allowing billions of humans to suffer needlessly because of her.

    But of course, this wouldn't teach anyone anything. All the universe is watching. God changed his plan and now he has set a time table. After all, this is just a short period of time to God. Right? And compared to forever, this is just a drop in the bucket.

    I could never stomach this canned answer.

  • Dagney
    Dagney

    Ah, yes. The issue of universal sovereignty. Like almighty God himself has to prove anything to anyone! Just imagine if our governments and judicial systems ran things the same way.

    Why is it that all of humankind must suffer for millenniums just because a woman, who was perfect, spoke to a serpent (like this happened all the time) and was coerced into eating a fruit. Makes no sense. Why not give us all the same chance Eve had instead of allowing billions of humans to suffer needlessly because of her.

    Ditto. No issue. It's in the minds of JW's planted by decades of propaganda.

    This is exactly why I can't buy any of it.

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