In the end, what will really matter?

by exwitless 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

exwitless

In light of the current deep philosophical discussions whirling around, I thought I would post another topic to ponder. Hillary Step motivated me to start this topic by this comment on another thread:
If there is anything that I have learned in my 500 years of life, is that none of it matters much anyway.
We all end up in some dismal cemetry with drunken kids urinating on our tombstones anyway. The atheist next to the fundamentalist, the good with the bad and ugly, and Rod Stewart with Caruso.
Hillary Step? 500 years old? No, that's not my topic. Here goes:
In my relatively recent re-entry into the real world (i.e. DA'ing in Sept 2006), I have had many discussions with Little Drummer Boy and many internal thoughts as to my "spiritual future". When first leaving the borg, it's a little disorienting; I was so indoctrinated to not actually think for myself, that when I actually allowed myself to ponder 'What do I actually believe?', my answer was "I don't know what I believe." I still don't know what I believe. And here comes the main point of my thread:
Since I am merely a human, with the constraints on knowledge that being human entails, how can I really know what's right? And, in turn, how can I really be held accountable for my possible wrong beliefs, actions, etc. by a distant and non-communicative god? Let's play out a couple of different scenarios:
Possibility #1: There is a god, and the bible is more or less right. OK, if I believe this is so, then I will be held accountable to god when I die for my actions as a believer. How do I KNOW there's a god and that the bible is correct? I can have "faith", I can strongly believe it, but how can I KNOW it? I can't. I am limited by my state of being to know for a fact. There are many others of various religions who strongly believe in their way of thinking as much as Christians do, so what makes them any less 'right' than those of a Christian belief system?
Possibility #2: There is no god, and the bible is a book written solely by men, without any actual divine inspiration. How can I KNOW that there isn't a god? How can I know that the bible was just a compilation of man's thoughts and interpretations of circumstances facing the writers? I can't know it, because I can't teleport myself back in time and ask Moses "Did god really say that?" I can read books by others who have deeply researched the subject, where there are as many supporters of the bible's divinity as there are supporters of it's being man-made.
So, in the end, I still come back to "I can't KNOW for a fact anything. I can choose to believe something, based on my research and "soul-searching", but I can't know it. Therefore, if there is a loving god in existance, he would surely agree that, yes, humans are being asked to believe in something quite profound, based completely on the unseen and a book written 2000 years ago. So, is it 'loving' for god to hold humans accountable for not living up to his standards if we, by nature, cannot possibly be 100% sure we are on the right track?
If there is no god, then the end of our lives are simply that. However, no matter which way we believe, we, right now, must be accountable for our actions, as they will have long-term implications for our future and that of our children's. Our moral guidance should extend from our effect on other people right here and now.
I always, even as a good JW, thought of the "prize" of the New System as being a hollow endeavor. If we were truly in our hearts desirous of god's approval and wanted to do his will, we would, regardless of whether the New System was a reward for good behavior or not. Even if god said, Do my will, but when you die, there's nothing more, we should still do it if we were truly dedicated. I think that JWs, by holding the 'carrot' prize out of the New System, are undoubtably proving Satan's claim true, that man only serves god for the benefits man receives from it. But same goes for the rest of religions claiming a "prize" for obedience, whether it's heaven, Nirvana, or whatever.
These are just my thoughts in printed word. I make no claims to be a theologian, or any other well-versed expert in anything. I make no claims to any strongly held beliefs on topics such as atheism, christianity, evolutionism, creationism, etc., because I am currently undecided on all of it. I consider myself on a religious leave of absence for the present time.
I'd love to hear your feedback, whomever is interested!
timetochange

In the end, what will really matter?
My love for friends and family and how I acted out that love.
Ed.
RAF

Possibility #1: There is a god, and the bible is more or less right. OK, if I believe this is so, then I will be held accountable to god when I die for my actions as a believer
Ok just about that for a begining (because the subject is big - even if the answer can be resumed in a few words, I leave it to be discuss deeply on this thread :
Our spirit can only evolve (it's only you which can retro act about it - but then it's a denial and it doesn't lead anywhere but hypocrisy and hypocrisy need to be supported by any third party, if not, you have to acknowledge your hypocrisy fully anyway) ...

So when it comes to be accountable about what we have done it is most about being aware of what we have done (know at some point that we have been wrong)
I remember me (which is really not into strinking kids at all) doing it 2 times on my son - and I still regret it BADLY (since I know I was wrong about the reason and the way - that's hell).
choosing life

I am in constant flux as far as beliefs go. but I know that the life I enjoy right now is not something that I earned. It is a gift. The jws and many others miss the boat when they teach that life is something that can be earned in one manner or another. Any future life is also a gift and by definition of the word gift, it cannot be earned either.
It does not really matter what you or I believe to be true because, as you say, our experiences are really quite limited. Truth is not something that can be changed, as the jws would have you believe. It is something that has always been and will continue to be whether we believe it or not.
There are many things we have held to be true throughout our lives. Some have been proven to be false and others we still percieve as truth. The script has been written and we are just enjoying a part in the play. So, no it does not matter in the end, because we cannot change the script. But we can enjoy the gift we have been given and even hope for a future gift of life.
Satanus

Whether there is a god or not has little bearing on accountabiblity and our continued existence after death of the body. Yhwh is simply the last of a long list of deities that have been assigned the job of invisible police man by the predominant church.
Forget about the policeman telling you what is right or wrong. Look inside yourself. Sense what is the right/best/apropriate thing to do in each instance of life. We have an inner spiritual core which may be described as divine. Look for it and trust it.
Beliefs matter very little, in that they cannot help us that much. W no belief, you can still benefit yourself. What matters is what we are, ie, how much we have developed through our experiences and trials. Knowledge can help, of course. But, when inner truth is found, the other knowledge, books, etc can be put aside, as their usefulness has largely passed. My opinions, anyway.
S
exwitless

It does not really matter what you or I believe to be true because, as you say, our experiences are really quite limited. Truth is not something that can be changed, as the jws would have you believe. It is something that has always been and will continue to be whether we believe it or not.
Choosing-that's an interesting perspective. Thanks!
Forget about the policeman telling you what is right or wrong. Look inside yourself. Sense what is the right/best/apropriate thing to do in each instance of life. We have an inner spiritual core which may be described as divine. Look for it and trust it.
Satanus-thanks for that viewpoint as well!
compound complex

Dear Exwitless,
It mattered to me for the moment[s] involved that you posted a thread on good English. I love to share points on my favorite subject [Oh, I do have many!] Then a few expressed their dismay at not feeling welcome for their less-than-perfect grammar. I wrote some and said it was OK, we love YOU - hang the grammar! Humanity!
It mattered when you asked ME - unimportant Coco - for use of a new topic. I was so pleased to help you for LDB's birthday. I am too discouraged to even broach new topics. I had something to share with a new friend!
It mattered to me when somebody said she read my Dear Diary every day. That is spurring me on toward my 300th post. I love to write, and ironically, it's the way my mother talked and wrote. I Remember Mama.
It matters NOT anymore about tomorrow. I am free today. I have healed [mostly]. I am no longer an emotionally needy, clinging vine. I am independent.
It matters that I saw and responded to your new post. I feel your pain and I now see your very important and meaningful life through your eyes. My illnesses and poverty and isolation are totally overshadowed by the joy I have in communicating with you at this very moment. You said recently that you would do me a favor in exchange for the topic -
Share your story and your love with whomever will listen - IT MATTERS!
Love, Coco
exwitless

Wow, CoCo, that's touching. You have, without a doubt, a talent for writing. I very, very much appreciate your encouraging words, especially at a time when I sometimes feel picked apart for other postings I have made. Sometimes I earned it, sometimes not. But your reply has made me feel understood here today. Thanks and love-Exwitless.
P.S. It sounds like you're going through a rough time. Try to take care of yourself first and foremost, and don't let yourself get too discouraged. I'll be thinking of you.
proplog2

What really matters? How much money you leave your kids. And how well you prepare them to earn their own money.
Sooner or later it comes down to dollars and cents.
If you have money you can afford to waste your life on crazy religious ideas.
If you have money you can fill the empty void of atheism with the stuff money can buy (virtually everything).
If you have money you pay for that new treatment for your fatal illness.
If you have money like Trump you pay a pretty woman to like your bald head.
Warlock

What really matters? How much money you leave your kids. And how well you prepare them to earn their own money.
Sooner or later it comes down to dollars and cents.
If you have money you can afford to waste your life on crazy religious ideas.
If you have money you can fill the empty void of atheism with the stuff money can buy (virtually everything).
If you have money you pay for that new treatment for your fatal illness.
If you have money like Trump you pay a pretty woman to like your bald head.
proplog2,
Hey, it looks like you and I have ended up worshipping the same god.............................."Mammon".
Warlock

In the end, what will really matter?

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