Say You're a Bethelite & Monitoring JWD - How Would You Feel About THESE??

by Seeker4 356 Replies latest jw friends

  • Arthur
    Arthur

    sKally,

    It seems to me that you think that there are only two possible ways to interact with the active elders on this site: either coddle them, or condemn them. It appears to me (from your previous posts) that our way of being diplomatic with active elders on this site is considered coddling. This is a very bizarre way of viewing these discussions; in my opinion.

    If an active elder; who is a newer poster comes to this site for investigation, and discussion; why must they be condemned for the organization's wrongs so quickly? Condemning them assumes that they are privy to all of the same information that you and I have. Most often, this is not the case. Congregation elders are only informed to the degree that the branch choses to inform them. Very oftne, elders are not privy to information that long-time ex-JWs have gathered. If posters on this site verbally "open fire" upon active elders who are here for investigative purposes; it will probably only confirm the organization's portrayal of "those wicked apostates". I, as a doubting JW would have never remained on this site if posters had begun attacking my character. I simply was not at a point where I was convinced of my own feelings and suspicions. It was the diplomatic nature of posters who answered my many doubts and questions that kept me coming back. Furthermore, why would we want to provide further ammunition to the WTC's portrayal of ex-JWs and angry and bitter malcontents?

    You have very articulately written about the many children who have died due to the blood policy. And, you have noted the ignorance among the rank & file members about such policy. No argument from me on this. However, did it occur to you that that some active elders are coming to this site because of growing doubts due to these policies? How can we expect these elders to be able to inform themselves and gather research material on sites such as this if we start lobbing verbal grenades at them? How can we expect them to ever reach a point of courage and determination to expose the organization's wrongs if we chase them away from this site so quickly?

    Some elders may wish to begin informing JWs of the organization's wrong-doing; but come here to get some advice as to how to accomplish this is the most effective manner. Some come here for advice as to how to handle such fallout, and how to possibly handle the many legal problems (possible divorce, custody, etc,) that are sure to follow.

    If a member of the Governing Body were posting on this site; I could understand a manner of condemning them for their deeds. But, you must understand that congregation elders are just as indoctrinated as rank & file dubs. Awaking from cognitive dissonance and denial to this level takes a huge degree of time and energy. It also requires a person being able to have a network or forum where they can candidly discuss their concerns without having to defend themselves against viceral verbal attacks.

    You can certainly gain the satisfaction of "blasting" these elders if you wish. However, I seriously question the wisdom and rationality of someone who appears to be more interested in being right, than they are in being effective. If we chase new posters (who are elders) away from this forum; maybe they will go to another fourm. If this happens; good luck in them trying to have any kind of dignifed dialogues on some of those other sites! (many of which tolerate profanity, vulgarity, and other childish nonsense)

    Let's not let our emotions get the best of us. Let's be rational, reasonable, and diplomatic to those who are searching for answers. If we do this; we will assure ourselves many future discussions with such ones; with probable fruitfull outcomes. If we try to come out with "guns blazing" and throwing accusations at such ones; we will soon find ourselves talking to no one but ourself. How effective will we be then?

  • Black Man
    Black Man

    Arthur,

    I salute you and others for your thoughtful words and diplomacy. If all had that philosophy, it would go a long way in helping J-dubs (whether nominal or elders, COs, DOs) to think and analyze how to deal with and/or escape the cult. Powerful methodologies at work indeed.

    Skally, I respect your work and your passion and enjoy your posts, but you and Johnny were dead wrong in attacking those elders, who made a huge step to just get up the gumption to post here. You hurt more than help with those type of responses and verbal "drive-bys."

    BM

  • johnny cip
    johnny cip

    auld soul: IS SKALLY WRONG , SAYING EVERY ELDER SHOULD GET UP AND SAY THE WT IS FULL OF S[edited]? YES... I AGREE 100%, but your an inside wt crybaby. forget about SKALLY. NEVER insult my witnessing work. you could never hold a candle to my lamp.. you just don't have my balls. you can't even touch what i've done in the last 10 years. you come here and cry about being nice . and using reasoning. that;s great it only works with about 2% of jw's research on any of these sites will show you that. now we are in the real world. you don't think i tried your 30 pages on 607 with jw's? wrong i did 100 pages. i learned it's the wrong arguement for me. just takes to long. been there done that. it's not working. when most times you only have one hour with any jw. i whp them in 5-10 minutes. if they like what the truth they learn . then i go from there. and will spend months with them if they like.. but i will have no so called self proclaimed know it all like you ., even get the inflated idea . that you have something over. me. BECAUSE I KNOW DIFFERENT.. SO GET OFF YOUR HIGH HAT.. AND NEVER THINK I'M SKALLY. BUT YOU COULD LEARN MUCH FROM HER. JOHN

  • TopHat
    TopHat

    Now that I have read this thread....I completly understand the anamosity that has been going on between posters....before that , I had NO IDEA how or why some posters are so touchy everytime an opinion is posted. I think it is time for all of us to cool down. Perhaps that is the reason for the board going quiet last night and this morning...to give you all a cooling off period.

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    John,

    but your an inside wt crybaby

    How can I be inside WT when I DA'd last December? Neither you nor sKally knows what you are talking about on how to help people escape the religion. Your 2% number is freshly yanked from your rectum, you are wrong. You called it correctly when you said you whip JWs. People don't usually like to be whipped, if they like it, they are masochistic. The regular punishment the WTS dishes out will always appeal to masochists.

    AuldSoul

  • Arthur
    Arthur
    you come here and cry about being nice . and using reasoning. that;s great it only works with about 2% of jw's research on any of these sites will show you that. now we are in the real world.

    John

    If your methods are so effective, why is it that we have not heard from Zarco or DoubtingBro any more? I really did not want to wade into this argument; but I am doing so because I am very dissapointed. I am dissapointed that these two posters who could have been a great asset to this forum; as well as this thread have been chased off by your infantile hell-raising. And for what? What did your tirades accomplish?

    I am sorry to say that the diatribes of the likes of yours on this thread has been like a stink bomb being lobbed into a nice cocktail party. Not only did Zarco and DoubtingBro decide not to tolerate this anymore; but several other posters quit posting. The discussions that were going on between Zarco, DoubtingBro, and ourselves was a very healthy dialogue which could have yielded some good results. As I stated in a previous post; I seriously question a person's rationality when they are so interested in being right, that they are willing to destroy a discussion like this.

    I'm afraid that your pursuit of personal gratification and ego inflation has helped to ruin a very good thread. And, that is why I chose to put in my two cents. As a member of the forum; I do not like to see verbal abuse heaped upon individual posters and rationalized with the childish "they deserved it" excuse.

    I'm afraid that many lurkers who have been monitoring this thread will be much more reluctant to actually post on this site for fears of being systematically attacked by posters such as yourself. This certainly isn't going to contribute to a very interesting forum. More questions and concerns will be communicatd via PM, and will not be able to benefit the many other lurkers who are on this site as readers only. If lurkers are not going to post questions and concerns out of a fear of being attacked; then I'm afraid that your methods of tongue-lashing will be a disservice to this forum.

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex
    I am sorry to say that the diatribes of the likes of yours on this thread has been like a stink bomb being lobbed into a nice cocktail party. Not only did Zarco and DoubtingBro decide not to tolerate this anymore; but several other posters quit posting. The discussions that were going on between Zarco, DoubtingBro, and ourselves was a very healthy dialogue which could have yielded some good results. As I stated in a previous post; I seriously question a person's rationality when they are so interested in being right, that they are willing to destroy a discussion like this.

    Well said.

    I'm sorry to see that an interesting exchange of ideas and thoughts to bridge the gap has apparently been destroyed.

    Chris

  • Doubting Bro
    Doubting Bro

    I'm still here and very much want to continue as a member. I've done way more reading than posting at this point. I think I understand the points skally & john are making. I also agree that it is a bit hypocritical for me to participate here when the company line says no. I've never told anyone what they can/can't do regarding the internet that I can recall. It's awkward for sure because I feel that I should always be honest. Yet, I'm not right now. And, it eats away at me. But, I NEED to be here, to learn, to research, to vent in order to figure out the right course.

    I really debated whether to even let on that I am a current elder. The only reason I identified myself that way was to show lurkers that they aren't alone. You saw several current elders come forth. I'm sure all of us were unsure of the reaction we would get given all the terrible things the WTS & its appointed elders have done to folks. I'm ashamed of the way many are treated and thought that I could make a difference. Well, I know I can't make a difference at the KH (on a large scale) but maybe something I say here can help someone break free. Or, even more importantly, maybe something I learn here will help me help others in my family.

    I was pleasantly surprised at the warm welcome I've been given. I also understand some of the more angry statements and realize they aren't personal. You're angry at the machine. At the moment I represent the machine (hopefully not for too long). I'm pretty thick skinned and pretty hard on myself. Nothing anyone says can be worse than the things I already think about myself.

    Anyway, I hope to continue the conversation. Thanks again for all of your input.

  • JWFreak
    JWFreak

    Well Said DB

    Hope you are ok mate

    JWF

  • Seeker4
    Seeker4

    Doubting Bro and JW Freak;

    Glad you've stayed around, despite the attacks you've dealt with on this thread. I understand the passion some folks have against the WTS, and I share some of that. But, it is tempered by my years in the Witnesses, and my struggle with my own doubts and concerns over the couple of decades I was a servant or an elder.

    I still have family who are Witnesses - my Mom, an ex-wife that I love very much, a daughter and her family. They know many of the things we discuss on this board, but choose to stay for a number of reasons. Maybe in time they'll see more, maybe not.

    I'm not in too much of a hurry to condemn people with doubts who stay in the congregation. Leaving is a real challenge and takes a lot of courage - more courage than I ever thought I had, though I surprised myself.

    I'd like to stay in touch. PM me if you'd like, and perhaps I can be of more personal help as you deal with all these issues. Would be glad to talk with you by phone. I've stood in your shoes.

    S4

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