Firearms And Shooting...

by Justice-One 159 Replies latest social physical

  • Liberty II
    Liberty II

    One important point frequently forgotten in the heated gun debates is that a well armed civilian population is primarily helpful in checking government sponsered crime while protecting ourselves from individual criminals is just a nice side effect. The anti-gun crowd rarely stops to consider that the greatest mass murderers of all time have been governments and not individual criminals. Self defense is primarily important when it comes to governments and I view my arsenal of military style weapons as there for my last ditch opposition/defense against the government when peaceful means are ignored and exhausted. I also have them as a deterant to random criminality but this is of only secondary importance since the chances of a home invasion in the US is very small (thanks, in no small part, to the fear of meeting up with a well armed home owner) and the chances of running into a random psycho killer almost statistically non existant.

    The same anti-gun crowd who are terrified of their otherwise trusted friends and nieghbors owning guns is inexplicably all for arming a bunch of 18 year olds trained by paid killers to fill out the ranks of the government's various military branches. Young people are notoriously lacking in compassion, life experiance, and common sense and this leads them into black and white thinking and hence capable of the horrific atrocities performed by these compliant young soldiers over and over again throughout history all ordered and excused by selfish or just plain evil government officials. I would much rather see an equal number of weapons in the hands of the doctors, engineers, university teachers, home builders, day care workers, and numerous other professionals we all trust our lives and most valuable possesions with on a dailey basis. Middle aged family oriented folks are who I trust the most as a class with weapons since they have rich life experiances of nuturing children, caring for aged parents, and are capable of understanding mortality, the true value of life, and of realizing that there are shades of gray among the complex issues they have delt with over a lifetime. Religious/political fanatics and power freaks who control government and it's impersonal authority to kill and coerce is the time proven murder machine of history. If government has a complete monopoly over lethal force they will use it always justified by an appeal to "the common good".

    Powerful governments are the real threat and not tools made of wood, steel, and plastics. A gun, sword, ax, club, or spear has no evil intent nor the power to activate themselves into diabolical action. Only ambitious humans using the power of government can kill on a mass scale and history has proven that, unless checked by an armed civilian population, governments will always resort to mass murder to achieve any goal deemed important enough by those who hold the monopoly on this power. Guns are not demons with the power to change a kind, responsible, normal person into a psycho killer by it's mere touch. Governments do however, have the coercive power to brainwash, propagandize, and mold opinion so that normal people are changed into monsters capable of torture and murder time proven over and over again. We don't need gun control we need government control and elimminating government monopolies on weapons is the only time proven method for controling the government's inevitable abuses of it's power.

  • Justice-One
    Justice-One

    What he said.

  • daniel-p
    daniel-p

    You know, I think this is the first time a thread has been started with a "right-wing" flavor that has actually helped changed my mind about gun laws. Oftentimes i get turned off by all the other values and sentiments some people throw in, like how some people view themselves as having rights that must be respected to the detriment of others' rights. Or the right to do whatever you want with your property even if it means you ruin adjacent properties with pollution. I just get so turned off by all the stereotyping it makes me sick. What I would really like to see from all sides is demonstrated respect. I know I'm no shining example of this... but I try.

    Anyway, I think something that anti-gun proponents whould be more concerned with is unresponsible parenting. There is no shortage of idiots who keep having babies and it makes me sick. If you own weaponry in the house and fail to educate your children on decent human ethics and respect for life then the mistake is not in owning guns, but in being such an idiot and wilfully succumbing to stupidity to the point that your children disgrace you by using those guns improperly.

  • Justice-One
    Justice-One

    I went up to the mountains yesterday and did a little long range shooting. How does just a little over 1000 meters sound? I was shooting at a big boulder with my M14/M1A and it sounded like this....POWshuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuWHAP!

    And yes, it was safe to shoot where I was at.

    Back a few years ago, a friend and I would go into this same area to shoot his 50 BMG. We found a place where we could safely shoot it at over 1400 meters. Hell, the 50 is just coming into its own at that distance though. LOL.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Well Daniel P, just don't buy into the idea that the "left" wants to take guns away. It's not true, and it's a strawman built as a political wedge issue. No one is going to prohibit responsible ownership of hunting or personal protection small arms in America. Ever.

    There is a ton of irony in a discussion like this, not the least of which is that the American right to bear arms IS primarily based on keeping tyranny in check. Well, with technology, that cat is out of the bag. Do insurgents fight US forces with AK-47's? Not really, certainly not very effectively. And yet, the AK47 is a rock solid automatic weapon.

    But they do fight us somewhat effectively, so the question we should be asking is if our right to bear arms extends to I.E.D.'s?

  • daniel-p
    daniel-p
    just don't buy into the idea that the "left" wants to take guns away.

    I never buy into any "left" or "right" idea. Left and right are arbitrary positions, and that is why I used quotation marks. I see irony in the fact that it seems many of those who arm themselves are doing so with a view to possibly defending their right to bear those arms. Those people are the ones whom I have little respect for, not those who actually have more of a use for their weapons than just defending their right to have weapons, living the delusion that they have absolute freedom.

  • Justice-One
    Justice-One
    If you own weaponry in the house and fail to educate your children on decent human ethics and respect for life then the mistake is not in owning guns, but in being such an idiot and wilfully succumbing to stupidity to the point that your children disgrace you by using those guns improperly.

    I agree completely. I was taught by my father "to ride, shoot straight, and speak the truth." I will always be grateful to him for this. I also passed this on to my three sons. I remember one of the lessons I always gave them consisted of hollow point magnum ammo, and water jugs. It never failed to impress on them the sheer power of firearms. They were taught at an early age that you never pointed a firearm at anything you were not willing to destroy, and that all firearms are to be treated as if they are loaded. I'm proud to say that my sons are among a small group of people that I will allow to stand behind me with a loaded weapon.

  • Justice-One
    Justice-One
    I see irony in the fact that it seems many of those who arm themselves are doing so with a view to possibly defending their right to bear those arms. Those people are the ones whom I have little respect for, not those who actually have more of a use for their weapons than just defending their right to have weapons, living the delusion that they have absolute freedom.



    The founding fathers would tend to disagree with you on this.

    Do you have a right in this country to own a firearm? Yes you do. Do you have the freedom to exercise this right? Yes you do. Do you have the right to use this right to take other peoples rights away? Of course you don't. The 2nd Amendment means what it says. The founding fathers wanted to make sure that if ALL ELSE FAILED, the PEOPLE could defend themselves from their own government. Most people do not like to talk about this, but this WAS the thinking at the time. And it has been proven around the world by governments that first disarmed their people, and then killed them. The book "Death By Gun Control" is a must read for anyone that does not believe what I have said is the truth.



    Check out some of these stats HERE. "When the gun prohibitionists quote a statistic about how many people are killed by firearms misuse, the discussion sometimes bogs down into whose crime stats to believe and how to count crimes vs. the defensive firearm uses. Death by Gun Control works on a level that nobody can dispute: documented world history."

    In the 20th Century:

    • Governments murdered four times as many civilians as were killed in all the international and domestic wars combined.
    • Governments murdered millions more people than were killed by common criminals.

    How could governments kill so many people? The governments had the power - and the people, the victims, were unable to resist. The victims were unarmed.

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul
    Six: But they do fight us somewhat effectively, so the question we should be asking is if our right to bear arms extends to I.E.D.'s?

    Six,

    Since the right to bear arms extends to any military weapon that could be used by a government against the citizenry, yes. Unequivocally. Fortunately, this is one area of enterprise that helps weed out those less capable, it is a self-exclusionary expertise. Those who are good at it don't blow up in their kitchens. You don't read about them on the news.

    And there are far more cooks in the kitchens of US homes than most people realize. You can do a lot with a styrofoam cup and brake fluid...with the right other chemicals. At the MCLB in Albany, GA bags of fertilizer are used to destroy decom tanks. That's fun to watch. Blows the tracks off.

    Add sling shot or U-nails to those bags and...you get the idea. See, the people in the US who can think this way (and there's tons of 'em) prevent certain powers that be from crossing the line. It's basically an easy-going, affable bunch of regular Joes. You just wouldn't want to see 'em pissed off. The US version of IEDs would compare to what The Base (Al Queda) builds like a bunker buster compared to firecrackers.

    No worries, Six. The knowledge is possessed by some solid people. And people like me, too...so...maybe some worries.

    Respectfully,
    AuldSoul

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Dear agent Mike, I do not know this person posting as "Auldsoul". I have never had any contact with him outside of this discussion board, and I have no idea what he is talking about in the above post.

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