What's missing from this forum is ....

Spectrum

... enough JWs and non ex-JWs to have a two sided debate that can give more depth than the current one sided debates that are typical of almost every thread apart from Creation/Evolution threads. These manage to polarise us in informative albeit heated debates. An argument should have a counter argument so that as much ground is covered as possible on both sides of the debate. A counter argument can elicit a quality response that would never have been thought of by the opposing side had they never been stimulated to by an opposing view.
I think that our threads are intellectually limited and not exhaustive enough. We are therefore at some danger of conning ourselves due to the lack of scrutiny.

luna2

I think the JWs have trouble thinking logically so debate is difficult....and when those pro-JW want us to accept their circular reasoning or their arguments strictly on their say-so, without proper research or sources behind them, they get pretty well stomped.

Both sides of the fence can be quite passionate about what they believe and don't believe so things can get pretty nasty.

I suppose if we could attract some reasonable JWs to the forum you might be able to get some sort of real debate going...problem is, that they are already doing something they know they shouldn't (according to the WTS) just by looking at this site, and some of us can't resist pointing that out to them. lol

Honesty

Spectrum, I agree with you 100%.

I'll call Bethel Brooklyn in the morning and invite the more mature brothers to defend and legally establish the Good News so that all may benefit from their fine witness to the Truth.

wanderlustguy

True. Too often it is easier to descend into aggressive responses to pro-JW folks than to step up to helpful debate. I've been watching for a year and a half and have no answer. For every one person who is welcoming albeit in disagreement with the person, there are 3 more to tell the pro-JW poster what an idiot they are.

WLG

AlanF

A fine idea in principle, but not in practice. For years, JW apologists have had their heads handed to them on most topics by knowledgeable ex-JWs. Most JWs who might be of a mind to debate already know this, and they don't want to get involved in debates. This is easily proved. There are a tiny number of online forums where a few 'scholarly' JWs will debate with selected others, but they explicitly refuse to deal with ex-JWs, calling them "apostates". Anyone who shows too much knowledge of the JW inner workings is quickly branded an "apostate" and summarily booted off the board. But only ex-JWs have both the knowledge and motivation to properly deal with the dishonest arguments generally fielded by JW apologists. So this board, being largely inhabited by ex-JWs, is not going to be regularly visited by sane JW apologists. Every once in a while, a naive JW will wander in, but they're quickly handed their heads and leave. The only dogged JW apologist who regularly posts here is one "scholar", who has proved himself the epitome of the dishonest and thoroughly braindead JW apologist. I don't think he is entirely sane.

If you want to try to convince some would-be apologist to come here and debate, good luck!

AlanF

Big Tex

It is a nice idea, and I would like to see it happen. Unfortunately only one side is willing to debate. On another board, I tried to engage someone studying. His first responses were generalized, arrogant, judgmental and completely nonsensical. However he ran away once I presented a reasoned, logical, questioning, response.

One problem with dealing with a high control sect, is that they are used to being in control. When they are not, it is frightening as their simple answers to complex problems falls apart.

On this board I've known several, a couple are still posting in a scattershot, timid way, but these days they do not want any type of reasoned, logical debate. I strongly suspect it is because they cannot control the questions and answers (ala Questions From Readers) so since they cannot answer debate they choose to be snipers.

jst2laws

Good point, and we all seem to agree it is too often one sided.

Since we cannot count on the other side to defend their stand I have a suggestion that my make things fresh for all of us, even the lurking JW's.

Lets ask AlanF and BigTex to play devils advocateand present the JW's best arguments for a month or two. Common, you two know the WT better than any JW's anyway and the it might inspire the JW defenders to jump in. It could be a load of fun too. How long has it been since we had some real fun?

Steve

Yes, still alive.

serendipity

They can only debate what they know. Once the WT explanations are dismissed, it would take a lot of time to do the research and prepare a defense. Many are too lazy. I know that I was/am.

Big Tex

Common, you two know the WT better than any JW's anyway and the it might inspire the JW defenders to jump in

Me? I don't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as the real intellectuals. I'm just a little guy who sits in the corner.

Still, are you asking that we present questions or points of debate?

Yes, still alive

I really miss the old days.

Real life really gets complicated, you know?

Chris

Terry

An actual debate is balanced. It has a pre-selected topic or range of points to cover.

Words or terms are defined and agreed upon.

I find here on JWD an enormous amount of time wasted in discussions because people don't agree ahead of time what their terms will mean.

Step One: Define your terms.

That being said.....

Walking into the other guys turf where he is surrounded by like-minded associates is a good way to get piled on!

I've asked for an area set aside on JWD just for one on one debates. But, it hasn't happened.

The winner of a debate could be said to be the person who most ably demonstrates.........(fill in the blank).

That way, there is a goal which is possible. However, a real debate has judges who are disinterested parties. We can't come up with anybody like that!

Consequently, all we will continue to see here is what we've already seen. Street scuffles.

What's missing from this forum is ....

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