Leaving or not

by Norm 10 Replies latest jw friends

  • Norm
    Norm

    The thread about people “leaving” has made me think of the 7 years I have been on the net and participated in various Witness and ex-Witness e-mail groups or discussion boards.

    In these years I have seen many a person, which for various reasons come and go from such forums. There are of course as many opinions as there are people and in such diverse groups there will always be debates about every conceivable subject there is. People who come out of the Watchtower Society seems as a group particularly ill equipped to deal with disagreements and strong debates but of course some more than others.

    When you have been in an environment where merely thinking and much less expressing any kind of disagreement with the “party line” was a DF’ing offense, free expression of opinions must come as a horrible shock. Not having “elders” in the form of moderators around to deal with “wrongdoers” also seems to be a great loss to such persons. Many of the people that come out of the Watchtower Society which disagree with the Watchtower “content” seem to love the rest of it’s structure.
    They liked the “conservative” attitude towards behavior and language in the Witness community and want everybody to conform to their standard.

    We also have the category of former “officials or higher officials” which has left the Watchtower organization. With such a position in the Watchtower system there came a certain status and thus a kind of automatic “respect” was given and expected to be given the person in such a position. A kind of respect that wasn’t earned but went with the territory. Such a position also gave a considerable amount of power within the “pecking order” of the Watchtower hierarchy. People like that simply get used to having things their way. In the real world these “perks” disappear and that is probably not an easy thing to deal with.

    Some have had quite unrealistic ideas about the forum and have found it wanting and not up to their “standard” and when the participants have declined to budge to this persons “standard” s/he has left. Personally I find such behavior quite dysfunctional and strange. It seem to be unbearable to some people that not everyone else will accept their personal standard.

    In the Watchtower system all the “undesirables” was dealt with and disposed of quick and efficiently. In that “wonderful” system you were safe from four letter words and such “filth”. People were willing to risk their lives to conform to rules about blood transfusions, but they didn’t swear or use foul language. The child molester’s was very well behaved too, didn’t use 4 letter words and put in a lot of hours pushing Watchtower literature and gave wonderful “parts”, they never used the word fuck, they just did it, with small children. I mean what could possibly and conceivably be worse than using foul language, folks?

    In all those years on the net I think I have been called every conceivable derogatory name in the book, did I get tired of it? Yup. Did it make me want to leave the particular board or list, MmmNo. Well, that’s me, others of course can feel differently. When you are called names and attacked in other ways, try not to take yourself so serious, try to be a little detached and you will see things differently.

    I think we should treat people like adults, if anyone genuinely want to leave this board and not post here for whatever reason, that’s it. I agree with those who would like Maximus to stay here, I think his contributions to the board has been great and that his presence here is important, but if he don’t want to be here, we should respect that decision.

    People probably have many different reasons for being here, and others have just as many reasons for not being here. For those who can’t soil themselves with being present of this board because of the language and manners of some of the boards participants I suggest they don’t. Maybe it would put some perspective in their lives if they reflect on the fact that somehow they didn’t seem to have any problems associating with all kinds of quite despicable people and “serve” for years in an organization that not only condoned but even directly and indirectly encouraged outrageous acts and behavior, all to protect the precious Watchtower organization. What people would you like best to associate with? Those faithful Watchtower people or the people on this board? I know what I would prefer.

    Take care,

    Norm.

  • D wiltshire
    D wiltshire

    Well said Norm.

    I'll defend your right to say it, but it doesn't mean I beleive it.

  • Tina
    Tina

    Amen Norm,
    It's actually quite sad. And how very true
    The atrocities that abound in the WTS, that were condoned and gone along with because it was couched in 'nicey-nice' speech. Under the polite format,the subtext was abusive death-dealing and destructive.
    I too have contended that many who come out are lacking certain critical thinking skills along with social deficits.

    I've observed that the subtext eludes some. They are still used to conformity of behavior and speech. They haven't yet come to the realization that the world just doesn't turn that way. Diversity also includes various styles and methods of communicating. I wonder how much modern literature they read? Because it's all pretty much out there. In music,art etc.
    And yes some still find comfort in abdicating personal choice and responsibility by wanting others to make those choices for them. Sad.
    The society always knew that. How they infantilized us by 'relieving' us of making the decisions and choices we should have always made for ourselves. By providing policy and people who did our thinking for us. How only ONE side of an issue was presented.(THEIR WAY) Those still used to such conformity of thought and behavior do seem to have the hardest time allowing others the right to their diversity and styles.

    Oh how easy it was to keep biting that beautiful polished red apple,while ignoring the dearth of worms under the skin.
    Time to throw away the rotten apples and get new and different fruits.
    Thanks Norm! luv ya,T

    Carl Sagan on balancing openness to new ideas with skeptical scrutiny..."if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense-you cannot distinguish useful ideas from worthless ones."

  • bajarama
    bajarama

    NORM,

    GOOD POINTS.

    BAJA

  • Tina
    Tina

    bttt

    Carl Sagan on balancing openness to new ideas with skeptical scrutiny..."if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense-you cannot distinguish useful ideas from worthless ones."

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    Norm,

    Thanks for the timely essay. Posts like this lend needed balance and stability to the board. Your perspective is one everybody would do well to consider!

    Tina -- very well done! Nice comparison and contrast between conformity and diversity. (A thought-provoking addition to this thread.)

    GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
    Mark Twain (1835-1910)

  • Norm
    Norm

    Hi folks,

    Thanks for your nice comments. Everyones viewpoints are most welcome.

    Take care,

    Norm

  • worf
    worf

    Excellent Norm as usual.
    I just hope you never leave.
    worf

  • gsark
    gsark

    GO Norm GO...!!!

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    Of COURSE you're thick skinned, Norm. Youse guys rape and pillage villages and wear those hats with the horn thingys on them!

    Farkel

    "When in doubt, duck!"

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