To our Mason experts?

skyman

I can see the similarities between the Masons and the JW's but I think the similarities are benign.

Russel was a Mason that I have know doubt about. He brought some of his old thinking into the new religion and used some of the symbolism to give credence to the new religion so other people that where Masons at that time might take a peek at what his new Religion was about. I believe there it is nothing more than that. He used Mason symbols to persuade other Masons.

What do you think? Do you believe the JW's are a secret plot by the Masons perpetrated on Society to further the Masons agenda?

I am open minded and would like to hear your replies especially RigBoy and truth-about-the-truth .

daystar

I agree with you somewhat. However, I still am not convinced that Russell was a Mason, only that he was influenced by Masonic ideas. There were and are a number of persons who really, really, really liked Masonry and wanted to be members, but whom never made the cut, or never bothered to actually try to join.

As an example, Aleister Crowley really, really, really wanted to be a Mason, but they would not have him. Conspiracy theorists, however, would have one believe that he, like Russell, were somehow special "secret" Masons because it suits what they wish to promote.

I understand you might want to hear from rigboy and TATT. However, to describe them as "Mason experts" would be a mistake. More accurately, they may be described as "Masonic conspiracy theory hobbyists".

truth_about_the_truth

There were and are a number of persons who really, really, really liked Masonry and wanted to be members, but whom never made the cut, or never bothered to actually try to join.

Your assumptions are really, really, really ridiculous. Crowley???! Russell???! You have no idea.

LOL!

West70

For those who wish to treat this topic seriously, I will repeat what I have stated on this forum previously:

The answer is in Russell's infamous sermon recorded in the 1913 Convention Report. Some get excited about Russell's "I am a free mason" statement. Other's then quote various other parts of the speech to show that Russell was speaking figuratively so as to embrace Masons in the audience.

What both groups overlook are Russell's statement(s) in that same speech that he did have "friends" who were both current and former Masons. "Friends" means "followers".

If you study Russell's quotes in the ZWT magazine, you find Russell to be deadset against Masons for the first few decades.

However, after 1900 you sense that Russell is softening somewhat, and by the time of the 1913 speech, Russell views Masons as a "field" ripe for the harvesting. Russell considers Masons good prospects because he has in fact been successful in drawing some Masons into his fold.

As a matter of fact, if you want to find WatchTower personnel who had previous Masonic ties, then you should start researching the various PILGRIMS who joined up from about 1895 through 1913.

Russell was not a Mason, but he did have followers who were, or at least were prior to joining the WTS. So, why not stop beating a dead horse, and go "beat" one that is actually "alive and breathing".

LittleToe

I secretly think that TATT ans RB got blackballed Oops - not so secret, now, is it? I wouldn't call them experts, either, as they have only really studied the subject from anti-masonic sources and have clearly started the "investigation" (and I use that word advisedly) from a biased viewpoint.

While Russell was clearly influenced by some of the occult ideas that were going around at the time, I'm not sure whether they were of his own originality or those whom he surrounded himself. The bottom line is that there's no clear evidence of who exactly was involved.

Because of that foundation, certain buzzwords (such as Watchtower, etc) have remained as a legacy. That having been said, the JWs are intolerant of Masons being included in their ranks. I suspect it's due to a paranoid concern that there may be other masters over some of the flock

My question would have to be: what is the Masonic secret plot?

Unless you truly have an answer to that question, it's a bit difficult to apply it to the WTS. Lets be honest, they were never going to take over the whole socio-religious scene with such wildly variant doctrines from the mass of genuine scholarship, far less the Asian portions of the world.

The Mormons have much more overt symbolism and doctrines contained in their religion, so I'd rather lay my money on them. If the JWs started anywhere near that route, they certainly diverged from it pretty early on, and can hardly bear that title.

Much as I'm happy reinforcing my personal decision to leave the JWs with a litany of errors, I'm afraid I can't genuinely level this one at them. Believe me, I've tried...

skyman

I read everything both of them post and I am missing their point. Could they be correct? Why do so many slam them instead of debating their ideas?

I do see that the Illuminati would like to rule the world but I am not convinced they are able to do so. There are to many people today that know the Society exists and think they are Satanist these people are also in powerful positions which balance the power away from the Illuminati. It is a very powerful boy's club that looks after their members and because of this they do influence the world but to what degree? I have a hard time seeing the proof but it might be like when I was leave the JW's I could see they were wrong but could not make the jump. I grew up with a State Senator that is a very powerful man, he is not a Mason nor an Illuminati at least he was not before he was elected. He fights these guy's and says they will never achieve there goals. He is fighting hard against the One World Government.

Is it not better to be educated than paranoid or worse yet totally ignorant not knowing what groups like these are trying to do. Yes I believe they are after a One World Government but might that not be a good thing?

IP_SEC

1. Russell is not the founder of JWs. He founded a rag that the JWs still use.

2. There is no need for a secret. The problem is very real, and very public. I do not believe it is a hidden conspiracy. It is quite open for all to see. It has nothing to do with High Magic, or corporate symbols. It has to do with money and power. It has happened before. It happened in the Roman Empire, in Archaic and Modern Europe. It has finally happened in the U. S. It is a “natural” progression that occurs in societies where men have authority over other men. It does not need to be driven by a hidden agenda passed on from one generation to the next. The driving force is greed, which is a more powerful than any Enochian Magic.

greendawn

According to people like Springmeyer the masons, at least those of high rank, are involved in the occult invoking satanic powers by a form of magic called Enochian and then try to use these powers to promote their interests. There is a theory that Russell was a practicer of this form of magic or satanism if you like. Behind his humble Christian personna was the face of a demon invoker and worshipper. He was in fact trying to promote his religion by demonic powers rather than the Holy Spirit. Rutherford did exactly the same thing, once he saw that the Holy Spirit wouldn't associate with him he turned to demonism to promote the WTS.

Don't forget the masons are syncretists ie they don't mind mixing different religions, even Christianity with satanism.

I think that the above theory is highly probable if Russell was a free mason of high rank and he almost certainly was.

mdb

I don't know if the Watchtower has Masonry roots, but if you want to learn more about Freemasonry, this is an excellent site. The downloadable manual under "Choosing Truth Manuals", called "Freemasonry On Trial" is especially good (*.pdf). The literature is purposely not copywritten.

http://www.ctmin.org/

skyman

I'll look at the site thanks.

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