I had a phone call last night from one of the Elders asking if they can come around. When I asked him why he said it was to discuss whether I would be interested in having a study.

This is strange as I have been baptised since I was 14 and left about 4 years ago and have had little contact with any witnesses except my parents, but, the only thing that has changed over the last few weeks is that I put together a 50 page report documenting a range of subjects including the UN involvment etc and give it to my Mum. Then within a week the Elders want to ask my to have a study!

I had a meeting with the same elders last year and I gave them a list of 50 questions that I needed answering before I would consider stepping foot into a kingdom hall again. I never heard from them again and have been making good progress talking with my mum. She concedes that I am right on things but still won't believe that the society would purposely lie to her. She even wrote a letter to the Bethel in London asking about the UN involvement and they wrote back and confirmed that they had joined just to get a library card and she was flabbergasted.

What I would like from you is any killer points that you think I can use with the Elders tomorrow (Friday 14th) because I want to give them as hard a time as I can.

I have my dis-association letter ready to give them before they leave but I may aswell have some fun before they do.

Thanks everyone

 

 

The thing is I won the last arguement but they left me alone to my great surprise. But I can't see that happening tomorrow.The other thing that annoys me is this Theocratic Lying. Asking to come around to talk about the study but obviously thats the last thing on their mind.

 

I know...I was one of them! I have found it frustrating with my parents. I have spent long hours logically going through loads of info working through lines of reasoning like:

So, the society has stated on many occasions that it is God's prophet, do you agree? Yes

And Deutronomy tells us what a false prophet is? Yes

And the society has prophecied many things that did not happen, do you agree? Yes

So the society are false prophets aren't they? No, they were just over enthusiastic

The frustration eats me up sometimes! As you say they they are told what to believe and how to answer and that is what I need help in trying to combat.

 

You have to remember that the society changed the meaning of the word prophet to teacher.  They are God's teachers not God's predictors.  Nice try

 

Why not tell them NO!  NO visits, no phone calls.

Since I have not been at the center of a JW witchhunt, I am curious why so many here let the dubs mentally persecute them.  Why do you let them in your home?  Can't you just ignore the door bell, get caller ID and when they come or call, ignore it.  Don't answer.  If they know you are home, even better. 

I must admit, I did dive under my desk (which faces the street) when they came doing door to door work, about 1 year ago.  I was suddenly terrified.  Then I thought about it and realized that they cannot hurt me.  My mother knows I am an apostate (and still wants a relationship) and since she is the only family I have had the last 20 years, I don't have a thing to lose if they DFd me tomorrow.  I answered the door and gave them a hard time about the UN and women being in subjection.

I would be pissed that they said my name from the podium, however, when it comes down to it, I know they cannot hurt me.  Since I grew up in Chicago, the likelyhood that they could even "hurt my reputation" is nothing.  It is a big city and I never had contact with dubs outside of the KH.  I never worked with any or saw them at the store. 

I would ignore their calls or leave them a voice mail at the KH that said "Fucx off, leave me alone.  I do not want to speak to you."  "If you DF me or announce I am DAd I will sue you for libel."  "My attorney's name is___________."  I think that would shut them up.

I'm quite looking forward to it actually! I've had a lot bottled in for a long time, but I know I am kidding myself if I ecpect one word to enter their collective dimness. Thanks everyone.

Can you think of any specific lines of reason that I can use to entrap them.

Teenyduck,

Thanks for the advice but I have been building up to this for a while, even so, I didn't expect my mum to go running to them, especially after she has personally checked all of the articles herself and even wrote to the society. But I am not surprised either. The fact that I have had NO phone calls, visits from any member of the cong that I was associated with from  a child ( I'm 32 now) is an indictment in itself don't you think?

There's been a lot of great material been posted on this site recently and I want to thank everyone for their research.

Hi Search....

Since the memorial is coming up, what a great topic to show a current flip flop.

Kudos to whoever first posted this, (I will try and find)

Many are familiar with the countless flip flops and contradictions that can be found in the WT publications of the past (for numerous examples of this see http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com). However, in reading through the Jan 15 and Feb 15 WT study articles I believe I have found a "modern day" example of a WTS contradictory statement. It pertains to the status of the "other sheep" as sons of God.

__________
In the Watchtower of January 15, 2003 page 14, paragraph 22 under the heading "Maintain Faith in God's Word" it states:
"Jehovah is the Father of spirit-begotten Christians and of their companions with an earthly hope.(Romans 8:15) And faith in our heavenly Father never leads to disappointment."
___________

To encourage the "other sheep" that having faith in God's word does not lead to disappointment, the statement is made that God is the "Father of the other sheep" and the scripture at Romans 8:15 is used to support this. Here is what Romans 8:15 says:
For you did not receive a spirit of slavery causing fear again, but you received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out" "Abba", Father!

The WT of Jan 15/03 p14 clearly states that God is the Father of both the "anointed" and the other sheep, citing the scripture in Romans 8:15 to support this. The natural conclusion to reach from this paragraph is that since God is their "Father", the other sheep would of course be "sons of God" as seen in Romans 8:15. The article makes no attempt to discourage this conclusion. However, when we compare this statement with the Feb 15/03 WT we see the exact opposite conclusion drawn from this same scripture.

___________
February 15, 2003 page 19, paragraph 6 under the heading "Attending as Respectful Observers" it states:
"Should those now doing good to the remnant of the 144,000 brothers of Christ partake of the Lord's Evening Meal? No. God has reserved that privilege for individuals he has anointed with holy spirit to be "joint heirs with Christ" (Romans 8:14-18)...Since they are not Jesus' joint heirs with a heavenly hope, they attend the Memorial as respectful observers."

In paragraph 7 they go on to quote the same scripture in Romans 8:14,15 (regarding being God's sons) as applying ONLY to the anointed.
____________

Since the WTS has long taught that the "other sheep" are not sons of God, is the suggestion that God is the Father of the other sheep (and they are therefore his sons) an error on the part of the WT from Jan 15/03? Or, is this an example of the Society creating ambiguity concerning one of their more distasteful doctrines - namely that we are not all God's sons, only 8,800 people on earth are?

It's no wonder JWs are confused about issues like this. First, they are given an article to study in January which makes them feel good about their relationship with God as their loving Father, and themselves presumably his sons. The next month the WTS lets the axe fall and tells the flock that they are most certainly NOT God's sons and how dare they think such a thing! Very sad.

Question: Can you rightfully call Jehovah your Father? can any witness? If an average witness (meaning not special class) were to insist they call Jehovah "father" would they have to be discliplined?

will

AlanF

Simply fantastic. Thats what i'm looking for!  Thanks.