by ProfCNJ 33 Replies latest watchtower bible
CG even an ueber missinary elder would not discuss Col 1:13.
This is probably one of the reasons why 7 chapters of the deep letters of Paul are assigned to 1 week's bible reading and a 10 minute bible high lights discussion.
This sheer volume overwhelms and hides the fact that none of these scriptures allow for a --"1914 kingdom"-- dangling between Pentecost and the beginning of the millenium rule of Christ.
An interesting discussion in the NICNT-Matthew commentary (R. T. France, p.103-04) concerning the phrase, "the kingdom of the heavens has drawn near." (Mt 3:2 NWT 1984-2013; Compare other translations here.):
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But John (and Jesus) do not simply echo this [prevailing Jewish] hope of God's rule coming soon. It has already arrived; literally, it "has come near." There has been extensive debate over the significance of the choice of the verb engizo [Strong's # 1448, "neared"], and of especially its perfect tense. The present tense, engizei, would have conveyed the standard eschatalogical hope, it "is coming near," but the perfect [tense] engiken [found in Mt 3:2] suggests something more actual. That which has completed the process of "coming near" is already present, not simply still on the way. There is a suggestive parallel use of the perfect tense of the same verb in [Matthew] 26:45-46, where Jesus' declaration "the time has come near" is paralleled with the statement that the Son of Man is being betrayed (present tense), while the following declaration that the betrayer "has come near" leads into the statement that "while he was still speaking" Judas arrived. This is not the language of an event still in the future but of one now in the process of happening. In Mark 1:15 the same phrase summarizing Jesus' proclamation is balanced by the declaration (also in the perfect tense) that "the time has been fulfilled," which surely makes the sense of present reality unmistakable. But even without that supplement [i.e. Mk 1:15] Matthew's phrase is clear enough, and is further supported by the language of [Matthew chapter 3] v. 10: the ax is already placed at the root of the trees. The time of God's effective sovereignty has arrived [i.e. in John's & Jesus' day], and now is the time for decisive action in response.
[End of Quote. All material in "[]" is Bobcat's for clarity]
The argument presented by R. T. France supports the idea that Jesus' rule began in the 1st century.
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The idea of Jesus beginning his rule after returning to heaven (or, conversely, after finishing his earthly mission as a human), would have an interesting effect on the explanation in Revelation of the four horseman.
If Jesus is pictured by the rider on the white horse (and many contend with that), but assuming he is, this would locate the 'giving of the crown to the white horse rider' in 33 C.E. The events of the rest of Revelation chapter 6 would stretch out from then until sometime in the future when the events of 6:12-17 take place.
The red horse and rider, being given a "great sword" would picture warfare over many centuries, and would include many developments in warfare, including the development of gun powder. The "black plague" (and numerous other plagues of past centuries) would be included in the description of the pale horse.
The fifth seal (6:9-11) would explain why the wait for the end stretches out. And it would parallel the description of the 144,000 in chapter seven explaining why the end had to wait. 7:1-4 would effectively add detail that was missing from 6:9-11.
The whole vision would have just as much meaning to the seven churches it was written to, as to any future churches. The 'wars, famines, and pestilences of Revelation chapter 6 would have a similar intent as those same things in Matthew 24. In Matthew 24 Jesus said that the wars, famines, plagues and earthquakes were NOT an indication that the end had arrived for the Jewish system.
Similarly, from the time Jesus begins ruling (in 33) the various wars, plagues, and famines that took place in the following centuries, would also not be an indication that Jesus' parousia had arrived, even though people (at any given time) would tend to view those things as an indication of a soon to come judgment by God.
Anyways, just postulating on the inevitable result this thread would have on the WT viewpoint.
I appreciate this thread. The 1914 doctrine has been weighing heavily on me lately in light of the recent changes the WT has made. I'm trying to sort through all of my thoughts on this.
Thanks to those of you that compiled a list of Scriptures indicating that Jesus was king before 1914, and in reference to Jesus' parousia. It has been very helpful to me.
I read my examining the scriptures daily. This book has led me to so many scriptures that contradict the JW doctrine. I read Matt. 28:18, a long time ago...so when they came up with the 1914, or should I say when I first saw it...I said to myself, Jesus said this just before his going to heaven, was that 1914. Even re: Michael being Jesus, I read Hebrews 5, where is brings out..to which angel did God say you are my son ? There are so many contradictions. I had 2 bible conductors my first one, use to tell me...she only reads what she is told...She is now a pioneer & when she comes back from the meetings or pioneer school, she always says, she thought of me when they said certain things...Many things I tell her because I have learned life lessons & so I tell her stuff that she should know already...But I digress & just say how nice..I think our parents told us many of the things God is saying, but many didn't listen. Anyways, the more you read the bible the more you will see that man just interprets what he reads...& it changes depending on our experiences in life...if a child reads the bible/scriptures about marriage, it doesn't mean anything to them, they are children, but when they start to notice the opposite sex, then those scriptures take on a different meaning, because now they are looking for a mate. I don't think there is any place of worship man can go for the truth....it's all man's interpretation, & we are all different..
The Org. will continue with their dates & their speculations, & if this system continues, they'll come up with something else. Most of us will have gone on...
Has anyone ever wondered if the JW org. will one day just not be anymore ? The Catholics, & other religions are still here inspite of all the wrongs they do...Maybe just maybe, God isn't bringing the end when the witnesses say, just so man isn't the one to call it....He could be saying I'm God & I'll end this system when I'm good & ready & no man is going to take the credit..this is my call..People.
Legacy
One thing everone here needs to keep in mind is that Bible Jesus and Watchtower Jesus are two different people.
They don't come right out and tell you about it, but they leave a lot of clues for those in the know to figure it out.
By just looking at, and reflecting on, some of these bible verses and checking their correlations, it would be reasonable to conclude that Christ is already KING way back before 1914.
So you're saying that he has been sitting around with a crown on his head, doing absolutely nothing for even longer than 100 years. That makes sense.
Main stream Christianity has taught that Christ was King at birth for over two thousand years. I chose a Christ the King crucifix to show his power over death.
Kurtbethel, thanks for finding one of the few pictures of Jesus ruling but with no beard!
This must've been during one of their strict clampdowns.
Splash
The part of Jesus was played by Steven Seagal.
These discussions of Christ authority are primarily based on a nonTrinitarian point of view. There is no direct scriptural evidence for either view of Christology. Main stream Christianity adopted the Nicene Creed many centuries ago. Christ is God. God is Christ. From before the beginning of time..............
When one is immersed in an orthodox view, these statements of Jesus; trials to be superelevaate and adopted by God run counter to Christian tradition. See John 1:1 in a translation besides the NWT. Jesus is God. The battle is predetermined. He is fully God and fully human.
He is not Hercules, performing miracles to please Zeus.
Christianity derives from Christ/God, not YHWH. Paul speaks of the folly of the Cross. Also, that no earthly kingdom or spook can separate us from Christ. Christ triumphed from before time.
