The "Sign of the last days" and 2 Timothy 3:1-5

by EdenOne 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  EdenOne

  I've just published on my website a new article: THE "SIGN OF THE LAST DAYS" AND 2 TIMOTHY 3:1-5 (click to visit)

  It contains a critical analysis of the context of 2 Timothy 3:1-5 and a refutation of the connection with Matthew 24:3, and therefore, of the expression "sign" + "last days".

  The article is divided in the following parts:

  • Introduction
  • The composite nature of the expression "Sign of the last days"
  • The context of 2 Timothy 3:1-5
  • The message of 2 Timothy 3:1-5
  • Two fallacies about the "last days"
  • Conclusion

  Due to its lenght, I won't post it in full here, only the introduction:

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  "The expression “sign of the Last Days” is a common occurrence in the literature of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. In fact, this is such a familiar expression that is a constant fixture in the ‘theocratic lexicon’ that the Witnesses use in their meetings, ministry and casual conversation. Here are some examples from recently published literature:

  “While giving the composite sign of the last days, Jesus raised this question (…)” – The Watchtower 2009 6/15 pp.20 §1

  “(…) as to other features of Christ’s sign of the last days (…)” - Jehovah’s Witnesses—Who Are They? What Do They Believe? pp.15-18

  “ (…) a Christian may be conscious of the sign of the last days but (…) “ – The Watchtower 2011 10/15, pp. 3-5

  However, using the search tool to search for this expression on the Watchtower Society’s own New World Translation of the Bible, available at the Online Library section of the official www.jw.org website, one can quickly realize that such expression cannot be found on the Bible.

  What is its origin? And what does 2 Timothy 3:1-5 have to do with it?"

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  I hope you find it useful.

  Eden
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  pixel

  Thanks. Heading over your website now...
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  pixel

  Very good. Thanks.
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  leaving_quietly

  Interesting synposis. Context is king.

  Are you implying that Revelation was written before 70 C.E?

  “and from these turn away”. Who are “these”? They are the ones that have “a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power”.

  Paul provides a list of traits of men who Timothy should turn away from, which includes not just those who have a form of godly devotion, but all the rest within that list, hose who are "lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty...", etc. I don't think "these" is only referring to the latter portion of that list. Just my two cents.

  Thanks for the article.
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  EdenOne

  Are you implying that Revelation was written before 70 C.E?

  Yes. I estimate that the first visions must have been received starting in 41 CE, and the last vision (the message to the seven congregations) must have been received around 62/63 CE. The book must have been compiled shortly after.

  Eden
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  EdenOne

  Paul provides a list of traits of men who Timothy should turn away from, which includes not just those who have a form of godly devotion, but all the rest within that list, hose who are "lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty...", etc. I don't think "these" is only referring to the latter portion of that list. Just my two cents.

  I think I'm clear that the message to "turn away from" includes all the men whose traits are listed on 3:1-5.

  Edit: I made a small edit to make it clearer. Thanks.

  Eden
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  BluesBrother

  The W/tower reasoning on 2 Tim 3 is a whingers charter. It attracts those who want to find fault with their neighbours and complain about everybody, whatever the actual facts of the matter might be. They can apply it to everything and everybody so it suits them just fine.

  Personally, and I am no scholar, I wonder if when the disciples asked Jesus for a sign (Matt 24) his reply was meant to describe the everyday living conditions of mankind and the normality of life as we know it. In other words, 'it could come anytime, when things are just going on as normal - so you had better be always ready for it!'
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  *lost*

  i will definitely be checking it out

  Was having a chat about something like this with hubby to be last night,

  had a profound thought, didn't write it down, lost it, lol.

  (ouch .. don't like using word jehovah)
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  EdenOne

  I wonder if when the disciples asked Jesus for a sign (Matt 24) his reply was meant to describe the everyday living conditions of mankind and the normality of life as we know it.

  I don't think that was his intention, but I've been wondering how much of his words regarding the "end" were entirely fulfilled in the 1st century. I'm getting near a critical review of Matthew 24 ...

  Eden
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  Bobcat

  Eden:

  After so many years of using 2 Tim 3:1-5 exclusively for modern times, I have to admit that this is revolutionary.

  By itself, "in the last days" of verse 1 could seem like it was refering only to some future time from Paul. But the last phrase in verse 5, "and from these turn away," is clearly an instruction to Timothy to eschew those just mentioned by Paul in verses 1-5

  Verses 6 and 7 refer to those who 'work their way into households and lead away weak women,' but verses 8 and 9 also refer to 'these ones' in the present tense (Paul's present time).

  One commentary I have, just as a quick perusal, ties the words of chapter three back to the context of 2 Tim 2:14 - 23, which is clearly happening in Paul's time frame.

  This is something I have to put on my personal study agenda. One of the public talks even has a section detailing that 2 Tim 3:1-5 could only be a future time from Paul. I've given it many times, yet never saw the context.

  Wow! Thanks for opening up a discussion about this.

  By the way, here is the section of Public Talk #2 that deals with 2 Tim 3:1-5 (the one I referred to above; I tried to keep the formatting and indenting exactly as in the outline):

  WE ARE LIVING IN LAST DAYS (14 min.)
  References to "last days" in Bible are not limited to the last days of the Jewish system of things

  Another prophecy about "last days" is found in 2 Timothy 3:1-7 (Read verse 1, gist of verses 2-7)

  Paul describes course and attitudes to prevail among ones claiming to be Christian in the last days

  Paul was not referring to last days of the Jewish system of things (kc 105-6; it-2 206-7; w76 512)

  Does this prophecy of "last days" in 2 Timothy 3:1-7 actually apply now?

  If it definitely does apply now, a lifesaving course is also necessary now

  Jesus' illustration of the wheat and weeds aids us in understanding and seeing application of "last days" of 2 Timothy 3:1 (Relate Matthew 13:24-30)

  The "wheat" from fine seed meant "sons of the kingdom," his loyal followers (Mt 13:37-43)

  The "weeds" were imitation Christians that would become mixed in with loyal ones; they would be allowed to come to full growth, being left until time of "harvest"

  As is true of 2 Timothy 3, these "weeds" pointed forward to an apostasy

  But the "conclusion of a system of things" referred to in Matthew 13 could not mean the Jewish system, even in a preliminary way; it must have been another conclusion, a future conclusion of another system

  Destruction of Jerusalem in 70 C.E. affected Jews, not persons falsely claiming to be following "the Son of man," Jesus Christ

  Apostate, imitation Christians did not spring into full bloom until much later

  So the "conclusion" mentioned in Matthew 13 must apply at a time future from the death of the apostles; this foretold "conclusion" is the one that began in 1914 (w81 8/1 22)

  We can all agree that now, during the conclusion of Satan's wicked system of things, the results of apostasy on part of persons falsely claiming to be Christian are clearly evident, as weeds are easily identifiable at harvesttime, when they have reached full growth

  This full fruitage of wickedness on the part of professed Christians is described in 2 Timothy 3:1-7

  It is thus reasonable that the application of the prophecy in 2 Timothy 3:1-7 is now

  Now, with more professed Christians (weeds) than ever before, we see an unprecedented amount of lawlessness, wickedness

  Distinction between "weeds" (professed Christians) and "wheat" (true Christians) is clear

  Bible prophecy thus clearly establishes that we are living in the last days

  Paul's prophecy combines with Jesus' illustration of the wheat and weeds to prove that the end of wickedness will shortly come

  Take Care