The "Sign of the last days" and 2 Timothy 3:1-5

by EdenOne 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  RayPublisher

  Great article, totally debunking the "last days" myth that WT and other fundamentalist movements perpetuate.
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  leaving_quietly

  Yes, this does indeed make me rethink those verses. I, too, gave outline #2 many times and never looked beyond these verses for CONTEXT.

  I was thinking about this last night... Paul wrote a letter to Timothy. Timothy didn't have a phone or a computer to call or email Paul and ask what in the world he was talking about here. He must have understood what Paul was referring to. No doubt, he did not feel this was a FUTURE time.

  This goes back to my "duh" moment a few weeks ago where, in the same chapter, Paul says that "all scripture is inspired of God", but he could not possibly have meant even the letter he was penning at that very moment.

  Except for the part about Revelation being written prior to Jerusalem's destruction in 70 C.E., the article has many good points. I have 96 C.E. burned in my brain for this (thanks WTS) and it will take a bit of research to shake that loose. I can see from just some surface research that there are both the "early date" and "late date" theories as to when it was written. WTS can be (no, not can be... IS) dogmatic about many things, including dates. So, please excuse me for not accepting right away anything regarding the date of the writing of Revelation at the moment.
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  Bobcat

  Leaving:

  For some starter material on the date of writing of Revelation, see my post # 115 on this thread. At the moment, I'm still convinced that it was written late 1st century. But I'm willing to see the counter arguments also.

  Also, an interesting thought from the NAC-Timothy commentary that I referred to above about what Paul probably meant by "the last days.":

  . . . The term "last days" sounds as if it applies "especially to the last days of this age, before the Second Coming." (R. Earle, 1 & 2 Timothy, EBC, ed. F. E. Gaebelein, 197, p.406) However, in the New Testament the phrase refers to the entire time from the completion of Christ's redemptive work until his return. Christ's life, death, resurrection, and ascension have inaugurated the last days. Peter's speech at Pentecost in Acts 2:16-39 proclaimed this fact, and the writer of Hebrews 1:2 reaffirmed its truth. . . Today we are living in the last days, that period between Christ's exaltation and his return.

  [End of Quote]

  Also note Peter's reference to "the last days" in 2 Peter 3:1-13. The context clearly includes the ones he was writing to.

  So in essence, we are now in the last days, but they have been running for a while, thus the counsel to be ready, for we can't know the day and hour. In a sense, "the last days" might be better termed "the last era" during which sin reigns. (Compare also Rom 13:11, 12; 1 Cor 7:29; 10:11; Heb 9:26; 1 Pet 4:7)

  Take Care
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  mP

  Timothy is about the coming time when the Romans will destroy the jews for their rebels. Thats all its about their present and not our future or any future future.
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  EdenOne

  Except for the part about Revelation being written prior to Jerusalem's destruction in 70 C.E., the article has many good points. I have 96 C.E. burned in my brain for this (thanks WTS) and it will take a bit of research to shake that loose. I can see from just some surface research that there are both the "early date" and "late date" theories as to when it was written. WTS can be (no, not can be... IS) dogmatic about many things, including dates. So, please excuse me for not accepting right away anything regarding the date of the writing of Revelation at the moment.

  Leaving_Quietly

  I wrote (not here) already about this subject and I think it can be demonstrated, simply based on internal evidence, that Revelation was written before 70 CE. I'll get back to this subject soon.

  Eden
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  EdenOne

  Bobcat,

  So in essence, we are now in the last days, but they have been running for a while, thus the counsel to be ready, for we can't know the day and hour.

  Something for you to ponder. According to the Bible cronology, we are now on the 6038th year since the creation of Adam, give or take.

  If the "last days" started on 33 CE and stretch to present time, then the "last days" are 1980 years old.

  That corresponds to 32,8% of the total human history, nearly 1/3.

  Now, even assuming that Armageddon would come tomorrow, do you think it's REASONABLE to think that God would call "last days" to 1/3 of the TOTAL TIME of mankind's existence since Adam?

  I don't. The explanation lies elsewhere.

  Eden
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  Listener

  Thanks Edenone, I am looking forward to your research on Matthew 24.
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  *lost*

  great post, thanks.
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  Vanderhoven7

  marked
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  Brother of the Hawk

  Marked