"Sit at my right hand" - WHEN?

by EdenOne 20 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    I recently started thinking if there could be a way to refute the entire 1914 doctrine without having to go into discussing chronology - like proving if Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE or not; If the "Gentile Times" have anything to to with the Kingdom; if "7 times" are really 2520 years"; If those are solar years or lunar years .... and I came to this conclusion: Nothing of that matters! The Scriptures have the answer, and it's not complicated at all, to proof solely with the Bible that 1914 isn't the date when God's Kingdom was established.

    So i wrote an article titled "Sit At My Right Hand" - WHEN ? And published it on my website. You can read it here. But in case you're not interested in visiting my site, I will copy and paste it here, should you want to comment on it. I hope you find it interesting.

    Eden

    ---------------------

    "The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: "Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet" - Psalms 110:1


    According to the current Bible study book published by the Jehovah's Witnesses, when was this prophecy fulfilled?

    “When Jesus told his followers to pray, “Let your kingdom come,” it was clear that the Kingdom had not come at that time. Did it come when Jesus ascended to heaven? No, because both Peter and Paul said that after Jesus was resurrected, the prophecy at Psalm 110:1 was fulfilled in him: “The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: ‘Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.’” There was a waiting period.” - What the Bible Really Teaches?, Chapter 8, Paragraph 22, published by the Watchtower Society

    The “waiting period” is based on Paul’s writings in Hebrews 10:12,13, which says, quoting from Psalm 110:1: But this [man] offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God, from then on awaiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet.”

    Notice the expression “from then on”. In the original greek text, Paul used the Greek term loipon [Strong’s # 3063] that literally means “something that remains”, and is used in the sense of “in the remaining time” or “henceforth”. In Psalm 110:1, the Hebrew term used is the proposition ad, that has the basic meaning of “until” or “while”.

    When will the Lord “sit” at the right hand of Jehovah? And what is the significance of ‘sitting at the right hand of God”?


    WHEN Jesus "sits"

    According to the Bible Teach book, the resurrected Jesus sat besides Jehovah upon his resurrection and ascention to heavens, and there waited 1881 years until 1914, when he was finally made King of the Kingdom of God and began to reign. Is this an idea that is supported by the Scriptures?

    Regarding the “when”, please read Acts 7:55, 56. Circa the year 35 CE, the disciple Stephen was on trial before the Sanhedrin, when he had this vision: “But he, being full of holy spirit, gazed into heaven and caught sight of God’s glory and of Jesus standing at God’s right hand, and he said: “Look! I behold the heavens opened up and the Son of man standing at God’s right hand.
    Was this the fulfillment of Psalm 110:1? Not quite. It’s interesting that he saw Jesus standing – not sitting – at God’s right hand. So, by factual witnessing, Stephen tells us that, at that time in 35 CE, Jesus was at God’s right hand, denoting his approval, but he was not yet sitting at God’s right hand.

    For how long would Jesus continue “standing” before “sitting”?

    When Paul wrote his inspired epistole to the Colossians, around 60 CE, he already spoke of Jesus as currently sitting by the right hand of God, when he wrote them: “…seeking the things above, where the Christ is seated at the right hand of God.” (Colossians 3:1) That same year, when he wrote to the Christians in Ephesus, Paul wrote of Jesus sitting at the right hand of God as an event that took place already in the past when he said that God “raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places”. (Ephesians 1:20). Shortly after, in 61 CE, Paul wrote the espistole to the Hebrews, where he stated about Jesus that “after he had made a purification for our sins he sat down on the right hand of the Majesty in lofty places.” (Hebrews 1:3) The “Majesty” by whose right hand Jesus sat down – a past event by this time – is naturally the persona of God Almighty.

    Therefore, the fulfillment of Psalm 110:1, when the Lord sits by the right hand of Jehovah God took place sometime between 35 CE and 60 CE.

    What, exactly, was the nature of the event of “sitting at the right hand of God”, that took place in the first century?


    What "sit" means
    Quoting from Psalm 110:1 again, Paul wrote in 56 CE to the Christian congregation in Rome about Jesus: “the one who was raised up from the dead, who is on the right hand of God, who also pleads for us.” (Romans 8:34) While here Paul isn’t clear about Jesus being sitting or standing, he tells us that he was already offering “pleads” in favor of the Christians, clearly already operating as High Priest, which the same Paul confirmed in Hebrews 7:25.

    One year earlier, in 55 CE, in his first letter to the congregation in Corinth, Paul quoted from the Psalm 110:1 again. We find this in chapter 15. In verse 20, Paul says that “now Christ has been raised up from the dead”, a past event. Then Paul goes on to discuss the hope of ressurrection. Christ was the “firstfruits” and “afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence.” (v. 22) What then? “Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power … As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing.” (v 24, 26) Therefore, Paul establishes a timeline, that starts with the resurrection of Jesus, and ends with the defeat of his enemies, the last one being death, and the consequent relinquish of the Kingdom to his Father. So, what happens between these two events? During this time lapse, there is Christ’s “presence” [greek: parousia] and this: “he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet” (v. 24). So, what is Jesus doing until [greek: achri, an adverb meaning “until” or “during”, see Strong’s # 891] the last enemy is subjected under his feet? He’s not waiting as if he were idle! He ‘rules as king” while or until the last enemy is defeated. During his kingdom he “waits” because it will be his Father that will subject his enemies under his feet.
    So, Paul understood the words of Psalm 110:1 “sit at my right hand until I put your enemies as a stoll for your feet”, not as a waiting time that Jesus would have to sit and wait until he was made King, bur rather, as a time period that would pass while Jesus was sitting in his throne, while already a crowned King.

    This is why, in Hebrews 2:9, Paul could write: “we behold Jesus, who has been made a little lower than angels, crowned with glory”. Indeed, by 61 CE, the Christians could “behold” [Greek: blepó, meaning: “to see”or “to discern”; Strong’s # 991] Jesus in heavenly glory already crowned, not in the prophetic, future sense, but in the immediate sense, that they could discern something that was presently taking place in the spiritual domain then.

    This was why Jesus himself could say, just as he was about to surrender his life in sacrifice: “From henceforth sitting at the right hand of power and coming on the clouds of heaven” (Matthews 26:64) Yes, “henceforth”, from those days on, and not in a distant time to come, Jesus would ‘sit at the right hand of power and coming [Greek: erchomai; meaning “to come” or “to go” Strong’s # 2064] on the clouds of heaven’. Furthermore, the use of erchomaihere, probably was specifically used in the sense of “going” rather than “coming”, because these words would also soon (“henceforth”) have a literal fulfillment, when Jesus, 40 days after his resurrection ascended to the heavens before his disciples and “a cloud caught him up from their vision.” (Acts 1:9) Nevertheless, the angel then went on to say that Jesus would return in the future in the same manner of his ascention, that is, ‘with the clouds’. – Daniel 7:13; Revelation 1:7

    Therefore, a comparison between Jesus’ own words and the inspired words of the Apostle Paul in reference to the Messianic prophecy of Psalm 110:1 lead to the conclusion that Jesus ‘sat at the right hand of God’, crowned as King of the Kingdom of God, sometime after his resurrection, between the years 35 and 60 CE, and it will end somewhere in the future, when death, the “last enemy” will be vanquished by Jesus Christ, the King.


    Incompatible with Revelation?


    But one may ask where the prophecy of Revelation fits in this scenario. Revelation was written still in the first century (possibly 98 CE) by the apostle John. Doesn’t it describe the birth of the Kingdom of God as an event in the future?

    That’s a common assumption, based on the words of John, in Revelation 1:1 “A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place.” He also wrote: “By inspiration I came to be in the Lord’s day” (1:9). Let us ask first what was “the Lord’s day”? Was it past, present or future, at the time when John wrote Revelation?

    The word “day” [Greek: hémera, meaning “day”, “period”, “interval between sunrise and sunset” or “age”; Strong’s # 2250] is likely to mean “age” here, since a literal day of 24 hours cannot contain all the events described in Revelation. Was that “day” (age) to start in a distant future? No, because the angel said (1:1) that Revelation was a vision of “things that must shortly take place”. Certainly “shortly” doesn’t mean 1800+ years! The word used here for “shortly” is tachai, which has a root meaning of “quick”, “speed”, “soon” and “immediate”. When the angel broke the chains of Peter when in prision, the angel told him to “get up quickly” [Greek: tachei; Strong’s # 5034]” and run away. (Acts 12:7) Certainly the angel wasn’t suggesting that Peter could wait weeks, months or years to get up and run. Therefore, the events described in John’s Revelation couldn’t be set forth in a remote time in the future. The phraseology utilized demands that at least a significant part of the vision should have a fulfillment contemporary to John.

    But if we established that Jesus was crowned King of the Kingdom of God sometime between 35 and 60 CE, how is that compatible with the angel telling John that the vision of Revelation was about the “day of the Lord” and events that were about to happen “soon”, therefore, in the (presumably near) future?
    One possibility is that Revelation wasn’t originally written in 96 CE but much earlier, even before 50-65 CE; Scholars like John A. T. Robinson think that John probably wrote his gospel and letter(s) around this interval of time[Redating the New Testament, 1977]; It is commonly accepted among scholars that Revelation was written before John's synoptic gospel, since some passages in the Pauline letters seem to make reference to passages written by John. It’s not absurd to conjecture that John could have been exiled into the island of Patmos even before the persecutions to Christians exacted by Emperor Nerus during 64-68 CE, the same ones that saw the execution of the apostles Paul and Peter. The Revelation could have been received earlier, since John apparently didn’t suffer martyrdom at Patmos (tradition says he died of old age in Ephesus with nearly 100 years of age), which may agree with the fact that his imprisionment and exile in Patmos happened outside a major outbreak of violent persecution such as those under Nero (54-68) and Domitian (89-96) and still in time to be read by Paul and other apostles.

    It is my opinion that Paul could speak of Jesus as already being ‘sitting at the right hand of God’ by 60 CE as a result of his knowledge of John’s Revelation, as well of course, by divine inspiration. An indication of this may well be the reference made by Paul about another Christian man whose identity he didn't disclose (perhaps for safety concerns), but towards whom he obviously felt great reverence: "I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know — God knows. And I know that this man —whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows — was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell. I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself" (2 Corinthians 12:2-5, NIV) If indeed Paul was talking about the apostle John, and if this supernatural experience was indeed John's Apocalypse, then Paul is saying that the Revelation had been given to John 14 years before he wrote the second letter to the Corinthians (55 CE), which would place the Revelation as early as 41 CE. However plausible, this scenario is conjectural and requires further evidence.

    So, rather than seeing a contradiction between the events described in Revelation (at least those related with the birth of the Kingdom of God), I see a harmony between John’s Revelation and Paul’s epistoles. There’s much evidence that the Kingdom was born between 35 and 60 CE and the “day of the Lord” began then and still continues in our days.


    Eden

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy

    I have been researching this topic to and wonder if he Jesus did not become king even earlier? There are scriptures even before he dies were he tells his followers that he has been given power and authority and when talking to pilate he says his kingdom is not of this world.He stating here that he already has a kingdom. There some evidence that maybe he was exalted to king when he enters Jerusalem when riding on the ass but still not sure???

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    His triumphant entrance in Jerusalem might have given Jesus some sort of confirmation that all the prophecies about him receiving the messianic kingdom were now irreversible, thus allowing him to speak as if he had already been invested with such power - at least symbolically, like in Matthew 28:18. However, there's no doubt that he would not be a "de facto" King until he literally die as human and sat down at the right hand of God, in heavens, thus fulfilling Psalm 110:1.

    Eden

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy

    I think you maybe right on that, but did have have to really sit down, is there really any distinction between sitting and standing? Also on this same subject the JW use a scripture somewhere were jesus stands up as an idea that he then acts to bring about his actual coming or Armageddon, not sure if this has any validity to or if there just over thinking the writing?

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    I think you're referring to Daniel 12:1

    I personally think that you should ask yourself first if "Michael" is indeed Jesus Christ ; In any case, in my opinion, the fulfillment of Daniel 12:1 was already in a distant past, when the Jews got relief from great distress caused by the Syrian opression in the 2nd century BCE.

    Eden

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy

    I'll have to look into that, i do not think Michael is Jesus, by the way. its funny you asked that because in two different scriptures Jesus says that in Luke 10:18 jesus says he say satan fall, but later in when he is about to be crucified he says the satan will now be cast out, so not sure when statan is actually throw out of heaven but surely not 1914. Back on topic why do you think Jesus gets his thrown later then 33ce?

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    Not much later than 33 ... by 35 CE Stephen had a vision of the heavens and Jesus is there but not seated in a throne yet. Yet, by 60 CE, Paul speaks of it as already had taken place. So, the interval is between 35 and 60 CE.

    Eden

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy

    you should post this over at paradisecafediscussions.org there's some smart bible students over there that would love to chew on this, good stuff.

  • prologos
    prologos

    eden 1 how about the kingdom of the Love of his son mentioned in Col. 1:13?

    surely the ruler of that early Christian kingdom would be in "session" sitting?

    it should not be missing from your dedicated website.

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    Jesus is the head of the Christian congregation, as per Ephesians 1:22 and 5:23, and Colossians 1:18, not its King. Naturally, having received authority over all things, he's also the King of every individual member of the christian congregation. Note that Colossians 1:13 contrasts the "domain of darkness" with the "kingdom of his love". The word "kingdom" here, therefore is to be understood as "domain", or "realm", not an actual administrative system. Christians were rescued by God from darkness into love and grace.

    That's a phallacy that the WTS came up with to justify every reference made to Jesus' "kingship" that seems to apply to a pre-1914 era as referring solely to a rulership over the anointed congregation.

    Also, note that I stated that Jesus was made King in the first century and his kingdom started then - but I didn't say that the "1000 years", when the "144.000" sit in thrones started then.

    Eden

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