time=360 days 7-times=2520 days 2520 days=2520(365 day per year)years?

by still_in74 49 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  still_in74

  I have to give credit to sleepy for alerting me to this little discrepancy. I cant believe I have never clued into the duality of Freddies logic.
  nevermind the jumping all over the bible between OT & NT to get his math together....

  *** pe chap. 16 pp. 140-141 God’s Government Begins Its Rule ***

  19

  According to Daniel chapter four, these "appointed times" would be "seventimes." Daniel shows that there would be "seven times" during which God’s rulership, as represented by the "tree," would not be in operation over the earth. (Daniel 4:16, 23) How long are these "seven times"?

  20

  In Revelation chapter 12, verses 6 and 14, we learn that 1,260 days are equal to "a time [that is, 1 time] and times [that is, 2 times] and half a time." That is a total of 3 1 / 2 times. So "a time" would be equal to 360 days. Therefore, "seven times" would be 7 times 360, or 2,520 days. Now if we count a day for a year , according to a Bible rule, the "seven times" equal 2,520 years.—Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6.

  so is 360 days representative of the lunar year that Daniel would have observed?

  *** w83 8/1 p. 21 Israel and the "Times of the Gentiles" ***

  18

  In the Bible’s prophetic count of time, a lunar year is calculated as amounting to 360 days. So a symbolic year, or ‘time,’ would amount to 360 calendar years. Seven symbolic "times," or "years," would therefore amount to 7 x 360, or 2,520 years. Counted from the year 607 B.C.E., when Jerusalem, "the city of the great King," was destroyed by Jehovah’s "servant," Nebuchadnezzar, and thus the trampling on Jerusalem by the Gentiles began, those 2,520 years would end in the autumn of the year 1914 of our Common Era.

  Oh yes it is! So here the OT testament predicts the Gregorian calendar centuries ahead of time. Yes, the WTS switches from Lunar years to modern years just because it feels like it.....
  here is my favourite bit...

  ***w831/1p.11TheKingdomIssuetotheFore!***
  Here we turn to Daniel’s prophecy, chapter 4, and find that the number of "the times" would be seven. The years contained in each time would amount to the number of days in a prophetic lunar year, namely, 360 days.Each day would stand for a year, according to the way in which Gentile nations reckon time.

  reckon???? uhm, references here? oh yeah, there wasnt any!! Anyone have anything on such a statement?

  (Ezekiel 4:4-7) . . .And as for you, lie upon your left side, and you must lay the error of the house of Israel upon it. For the number of the days that you will lie upon it you will carry their error. 5 And I myself must give to you the years of their error to the number of three hundred and ninety days, and you must carry the error of the house of Israel. 6 And you must complete them. "And you must lie upon your right side in the second case, and you must carry the error of the house of Judah forty days. A day for a year, a day for a year, is what I have given you.7 And to the siege of Jerusalem you will fix your face, with your arm bared, and you must prophesy against it.

  what does Ezekiel lying on his side a day for every year that Israel sinned have to do with prophecy?? How could anyone come to a conclusion like this? SURELY the WTS (formerly FF) had an answer to this!!!

  Since Jeremiah and Ezekiel were contemporaries, their prophecies have many things in common. (Compare Eze 18:2 with Jer 31:29; Eze 24:3 with Jer 1:13; Eze 34:2 with Jer 23:1.) Daniel and Ezekiel, also contemporaries, have similarities of expression in their writings. Ezekiel, while bound by cords, prophesied about the kingdom of Judah and designated "a day for a year," each day of the prophecy corresponding to a year in the fulfillment. (Eze 4:4-8) Daniel spoke of a banded tree stump, a prophecy concerning the Kingdom, and specified the time period until removal of the bands. (Da 4:23) Another time prophecy of Daniel was the 70 weeks in connection with the coming of Messiah the Leader, also using a day to symbolize a year in the fulfillment.—Da 9:24-27.

  Not only was there no explanation of HOW the bible actually creates a rule for prophecy (day/year) but they actually MISLEAD the reader into to presuming that it actually DOES state this. Then - the BAIT & SWITCH - except the bait is a LIE !
  Yet no one is even considering that even if this was in some twisted way an actual prophecy instead of a demand of restitution by Jehovah, why would this apply to all prophecies written after? Well not all, just the ones the WTS wants them to apply too.

  And what about the statement -

  "Each day would stand for a year, according to the way in which Gentile nations reckon time."Maybe Blondie can help me out cause I couldnt find any other similar statement like this anywhere!How can human beings not see the BS contained here???
• 

  Farkel

  still in,
  
  This explains it all. It is an except from my "Handy JW Apostate Glossary":
  
  "1914" A.D. - the single most important date in JW doctrine, and is the result of using 607 B.C as an "anchor date", using the book of Daniel, Chapter 4, as proof.
  
  This is based upon the following, simple reasoning:
  
  7 "times" doesn't mean "7 times". It means "7 years".
  
  But,"7 years" doesn't really mean 7 "years", either. It means "7 years of days".
  
  But, the "days" in "years of days" doesn't really mean "years of days, in which the days actually mean "days", but means "years of days, in which the "days" actually mean "years".
  
  Therefore, it is easy for even a fool to see that "7 times" REALLY means "7 years" but which really means "7 years of days", but which then really means "7 years of days which aren't really days, but years", or simply stated "7 years of days of which days are really years". To put it even so a child can understand it, it means that the "times" aren't "times" at all, but are "years", which aren't "years" at all, but are "years of days", which aren't "days" at all, but are "years" AFTER all, even though they were originally CALLED "times"!
  
  Got all that? There's more.
  
  Strangely, however, for all of this to work, this fulfillment, based upon an ANCIENT text, still requires the use of the ANCIENT calendar for the MODERN fulfillment to work out to 1914. Therefore, ancient text + ancient calendar = modern date in modern calendar.
  
  When doing your calculations, don't forget that there is no "zero year" from B.C to A.D. C.T. Russell forgot that and was quite embarrassed about it. The official WTBS explanation in later, revised, editions of his books was that "the battery was very low in his calculator at that time" and he wasn't aware of it until after the material was printed.
  
  Lastly, the book of Daniel was prophesied to remain "sealed" until the "last days", which, as we know, began in 1914, according to the simple reasoning just presented. So, Russell had to figure out a way to, somehow "unseal" Daniel before it was prophesied that Daniel WOULD be "unsealed" so he could then put forth a prophecy which pointed to exactly when Daniel WAS to be "unsealed", namely at the start of the "last days", in 1914.
  
  Russell, therefore, successfully used a "sealed" book to calculate the exact date it was to be "unsealed", which at that time it was officially, "unsealed", but Russell "unsealed" it before that, because he wanted to know beforehand when it WOULD be "unsealed", because only THEN would he know when the "last days" were to start, which was, of course, when Daniel actually WAS to be "unsealed". Got all that?
  
  I apologize to the reader for using so many words, but, this stuff is so, well, "DEEP"! (See "607" B.C" and "Reasoning".)
  
  Farkel
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  stillajwexelder

  So here the OT testament predicts the Gregorian calendar centuries ahead of time.
  
  I thought Pope Gregory was part of Babylon the Great
• 

  BurnTheShips

  How can human beings not see the BS contained here???

  Oh dear, you seem to have found a glitch in the Matrix.....
• 

  stillajwexelder

  Lastly, the book of Daniel was prophesied to remain "sealed" until the "last days", which, as we know, began in 1914, according to the simple reasoning just presented. So, Russell had to figure out a way to, somehow "unseal" Daniel before it was prophesied that Daniel WOULD be "unsealed" so he could then put forth a prophecy which pointed to exactly when Daniel WAS to be "unsealed", namely at the start of the "last days", in 1914.
  
  
  ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT - I have never thought of that before - that is stunning logic
• 

  Leolaia

  Good post.....there is nothing in Daniel about each day standing in for a year. Just as there is nothing about the "seven times" having anything other to do with anything beyond Nebuchadnezzar.

  I should also point out that there is no such thing as a 360-day lunar year. The Jews did have a schematic solar calendar which had 360 monthly days, and this is what is used in Daniel and in Revelation (and it is also used in the Book of Luminaries in 1 Enoch and in modified form in Jubilees and later calendrical texts in the Dead Sea Scrolls). In this calendar there were 360 days divided between 12 months (30 days per month) and four seasons. But the total number of days in the year was not 360 but 364 -- that is because the calendar was sabbatical such that 364 is easily divisible by 7 and thus the festivals would start on the same day of the week each year. The four additional days originally did not belong to the months but were placed in between the seasons as special markers of the seasons, e.g. the spring equinox, the summer solstice, the autumn equinox, and the winter solstice. Multiplying 360 by 7 does not give you a continuous stretch of 7 years in the calendar that Daniel used, as it would omit all the solstices and equinoxes that were not reckoned as belonging to the months of the year. It was the later Jubilees and Qumran version of the calendar that included these days into the months, such that each season had two 30-day months and one 31-day month. For more on this, see the article "The Solar Calendars of Daniel and Enoch" by Gabriele Boccaccini in The Book of Daniel: Composition and Reception (ed. by John Collins & Peter Flint, 2001), volume 2.

  The actual Hebrew lunar calendar had only 354 days in a year (not counting the extra intercalated month every several years).
• 

  ex-icoc

  Thanks Still in
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  BabaYaga

  Bookmarked.
  
  Thanks, all... I always go kinda bleary-eyed when I see this stuff... but I'm glad the lot of you get a kick out of picking it apart and arranging it into bullet points for me!
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  truthsetsonefree

  Sleepy made an excellent point about the calendars. Of course a dub would say that things like the calendar differences only introduce a small deviation, so their 1914 thing, even if off, isn't off by that much. Sleepy's resurrected post got me rersearching this stuff again on wtlib after many years of forgetting about it. What's amazing is the doublespeak. They accept "secular" chronology when it suits them and reject it when no longer convenient. They based so much on ancient documents no one is absolutely certain of, and all they have to say about that is the Bible is to be trusted regardless of anything else. They say that "critics" claim such and such, but don't go into any real detail on exactly what the critics say. No sources are given. It is sheer confusing nonsense. Finally, on how the dubs swallow this without question, they don't REALLY do the HW. Any who do become like us, ex-JWs.

  Isaac
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  VM44

  If a Bethelite raises any questions about these "days" not adding up correctly, he (or her) will be asked to leave Bethel!

  No questions allowed even if the doctrines don't make any sense.

  See this personal experience from a Bethelite who did ask questions.

  What Happens When A Bethelite Questions the Governing Body
  by Steve McRoberts

  http://www.freeminds.org/bethel/smcroberts.htm