by still_in74 49 Replies latest watchtower bible
Leolaia, I have a dumb question to ask (hopefully not too dumb).
Would the argument that the Jewish calendar added 4 non-monthly days cut any ice with those who believe Daniel was the author of Daniel? If Daniel was the author and he had lived in Babylonia since boyhood and educated in their ways, wouldn't he be using the Babylonian calendar, where the solstices and equinoxes were not extra, but already integrated into the lunar months?
LEO has here given us an invaluable tool for determining God's True People!
The actual Jewish calendar had 354 days.
Counting 2478 years from 606 the date Russell got from chronologies of his time brings us to
1872!!!
At this time the early Bible students started meeting to ascertain Divine Truth and the first publication of ZION'S WATCH TOWER occurred under the direction of the "Faithful Steward" (I think the modern term is "Trolley Dolly")
And all this was foretold as history 3000 years in advance!
What a joyous way to begin 2009. I am pressing my suit and digging out my Songbook even as I speak.
Now I need the toilet.
HB
WT Wizard: if ther eis a discrepancy of 36 3/4 year than the issue quite easily solved. Russel was right after all.....1914 3/4 - 36 3/4 = 1878......the year that the WT was issued as a herald of Gods Kingdom......
Cheers
Borgia
The evidence imo is overwhelming that Daniel was not written in the sixth century BC, but I won't get into that now. I should first point out that the Jewish solar schematic calendar has Babylonian origins. There is a good article on this by Wayne Horowitz ("The 360 and 364 Day Year in Ancient Mesopotamia," JANES, 1996), who shows that alongside the lunar calendar the 360-day schematic calendar first made its appearance in the Ur III period (in the late third millennium BC) and it was widely used in the second and early first millennia BC. This calendar (consisting of twelve 30-day months, with no intercalation) came into vogue mainly for economic purposes -- that is, it is easier to pay workers and collect taxes for months that are equal in length and without having irregular intercalated months. This calendar was stellar-based and "corresponded to an ancient Mesopotamian astronomical theory known from the first millennium BC astronomical texts which held that the stars, sun, and moon moved along 360-degree circuits. According to this model, each day of the ideal astornomical year of 360 days corresponded to 1 degree of stellar or solar movement" (p. 40). The 364-day calendar is a revision of this calendar that measures the annual circuit of stellar movement as 364 degrees and was attested in later first millennium BC texts like Mul-Apin II ii 11-12 and AO 6478 // K. 9794, the latter dating to the seventh century BC. According to Horowitz, "the cuneiform evidence places knowledge of the 364 day year in post-Nebuchadnezzar II Babylonia -- a time and place where it would have been available to ancient Israel. Thus it would appear that the Mesopotamian 364 day year is the ultimate source of the 364 day year found in the Apocrypha and the Qumran texts" (p. 41). In a more recent article (Jonathan Ben-Sov and Wayne Horowitz, "The Babylonian Lunar Three in Calendrical Scrolls From Qumran", ZAVA, 2005), Horowitz shows that the methodology used in the Qumran calendrical texts of synchronizing the 364-day calendar with the 354-day lunar calendar is found in older Babylonian cuneiform texts, suggesting again that the Jews borrowed the schematic year as a solar-based calendar. Of course, the Jewish version of the 364-day calendar has its own unique properties, such as its sabbatical reckoning and its placement of solstices and equinoxes after the months of Sivan, Elul, Chislev, and Adar. That Daniel specifically utilized the 364-day calendar is argued by Boccaccini in his article "The Solar Calendars of Daniel and Enoch" (in The Book of Daniel: Composition and Reception, 2001).
It is also worth noting that many (Jaubert, VanderKam, Boccaccini, Elior, etc.) believe that this calendar was used widely throughout the OT and was the cultic calendar used by the Zadokite priesthood after the exile. In particular, the late priestly writings of the OT (Ezekiel, P, Haggai, Zechariah, Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah) seem to exhibit the same calendrical properties as the 364-day calendar in Jubilees, e.g. the months are numbered instead of named and the authors prevent their biblical characters from profaning the sabbath through travel and other activities. However, this particular theory is disputed, with counterarguments provided by Stern, Wacholder, and others.
To be fair, it was not until 1953 when Annie Jaubert published her massive and hugely influential study on the solar calendar, and I don't think Bacon nor Morgenstern made the connection with the calendars of Daniel and Revelation. But certainly by now these facts are widely published and appreciated (particularly since the publication of the Dead Sea Scrolls and the studies of James VanderKam), and yet I don't think the Society has ever adjusted their position in light of these findings. Of course, it would totally ruin their calculation of 2,520 years, as they would have to add in the four non-monthly days in the calculation of 7 years.
its amazing how little information it takes to see the depth of so many mistakes made by the WTS.... the word "presumptuousness" comes to mind....
I forgot to mention another article that argues for Daniel's use of the Jewish solar calendar: J. Van Goudoever, "Time Indications in Daniel That Reflect the Usage of the Ancient Theoretical So-Called Zadokite Calendar," The Book of Daniel In Light of New Findings (1993, pp. 533-538). Also see Hanan Eshel, "4Q390, the 490-Year Prophecy, and the Calendrical History of the Second Temple Period," Enoch and Qumran Origins: New Light on a Forgotten Connection (2005, pp. 102-110).
Here are some of the main indicators that the author(s) presumed the Jewish schematic calendar and not the lunisolar calendar (either in its Babylonian, Seleucid, or Jewish forms):
(1) In Daniel 6:8, 13 "thirty days" is referred to as a set period and even though it is not explicitly called a month in this context, it was in the schematic sabbatical calendar that months have a regular length of 30 days.
(2) The periods of 1,290 days and 1,335 days in Daniel 12:11-12 are directly related to the "time, two times, and half a time" in 12:7, and this relates to the period of persecution by Antiochus IV Epiphanes (involving war, the abolition of daily sacrifice, and the setting up of the appalling abomination in the Temple) that is also related in 7:25 (also a "time, two times, and half a time") and 9:27 (for a "half week" of years, i.e. 3 1/2 years). In the schematic sabbatical calendar, 3 1/2 years equal 1,260 monthly days -- each month lasting 30 days. In the lunisolar calendar, the same period of time would have 1,244 monthly days (or 1,273 monthly days if a second Adar is counted). Revelation interpreted the "time, two times, and half a time" (12:14) as 1,260 days (11:3, 12:6) and 42 months (11:2, 13:5). This correctly recognizes that Daniel used a calendar of twelve 30-day months. The periods of 1,290 and 1,335 days in Daniel 12 however are slightly longer than 3 1/2 years. But these lengths are also intelligible according to the same calendrical reckoning. An extra 30-day month is added to the 3 1/2 years to reach 1,290 days, and 1,335 days adds to this an extra half month (15 days). Thus, 1,260 days, 1,290 days, and 1,335 days are all intelligible monthly reckonings in the sabbatical schematic calendar.
(3) The only calendrical date given in Daniel is "the twenty-fourth day of the first month" (I/24) in 10:4. The month is numbered and not named, as was the case with the sabbatical schematic calendar in 1 Enoch, Jubilees, and the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the months are similarly numbered in the late priestly writings of the OT (i.e. P, Ezekiel, Zechariah, Haggai, Ezra, 1-2 Chronicles, etc.) that seem to similarly betray knowledge of the sabbatical schematic calendar (as argued by Jaubert and VanderKam). P's account of the Flood, for example, also presumes such a calendar, as it refers to a 150 days (30 x 5) equaling 5 months (Genesis 7:11, 24, 8:3-4), i.e. II/17 to VII/17, and in Numbers 10:11-12, 33 P has the ark of the covenant leave Sinai on II/20 (a Wednesday in the schematic calendar) and stop its journey on II/22 such that the people may rest (II/22 is a Friday in the schematic calendar, with the sabbath rest coming the next day), and in fact P frequently has journeys end on Fridays if read according to the schematic calendar (e.g. Noah's ark comes to rest at Ararat on VII/17, a Friday, in Genesis 8:4, the Israelites arrive at the desert of Sin on II/15, a Friday, in Numbers 16:1, the Israelites arrive to the Promised Land on I/10, a Friday, in Joshua 4:19; cf. also the Jews arriving to Jerusalem after the Babylonian Exile on V/1, a Friday, in Ezra 7:9, etc.), just as journeys frequently begin on a Wednesday (e.g. the Israelites departing Egypt on 1/15, a Wednesday, in Exodus 12:31-51, the Jews departing Babylon after the Babylonian Exile on I/1, a Wednesday, in Ezra 7:9, Adam and Eve departing from the Garden of Eden on IV/1, a Wednesday, in Jubilees 3:32, Noah and his family departing the ark on II/27, a Wednesday, in Jubilees 5:32, Abraham departing Mount Zion on I/15, a Wednesday, in Jubilees 18:1-17, Jacob departing to Bethel on VII/1, a Wednesday, in Jubilees 31:3, etc.). There however has been a good deal of debate among scholars on how much the priestly writings of the OT follow this calendar, but since Daniel shows great interest in the priesthood (in ch. 9) and the Temple cult itself (in both ch. 8 and 9), Jaubert's theory if valid would be relevant.
(4) The date of I/24 in Daniel 10:4 has special meaning in the schematic calendar that is consistent with the time periods of Daniel. It ends a period of fasting lasting "twenty-one days" (v. 13), or "three weeks" (v. 2). Since he fasted a whole three weeks, receiving his angelic visit on I/24 (a Friday), he must have started his fast on I/3 upon receiving his original vision -- the day of man's creation in the schematic calendar (a Friday, with the sun being created on I/1, the fourth day of creation, a Wednesday). This is an appropriate day to have received the vision foreseeing the resurrection of the dead (12:1-3; the dead are brought to life from the "dust of the earth" just as Adam was brought to life from the dust of the earth in Genesis). What is especially interesting is that unlike the lunar calendar, the sabbatical schematic calendar obligatorily started the year directly upon the (schematic) spring equinox. If we count from the equinox (between XII/30 and I/1), I/24 is exactly 3 1/2 weeks later. Since Daniel elsewhere shows interest in periods of 3 1/2 "times" (7:25, 9:27, 12:14) and in weeks (ch. 9), this may be part of the author's plan. The counting of weeks from the equinox to I/24 is also meaningful since the second week ends with Passover, the third week starts with the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and the third week ends with the last day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Moreover, I/24 is the day before the sabbath in the sabbatical calendar, and the angel concludes his explanation of the vision by telling Daniel that after going his way he will rest until the resurrection. The reference is to the prophet's own death, but there may be a sabbatical overtone in this reference to rest. Finally, I/26 is the day of the waving of the Omer (cf. Leviticus 23) in the schematic calendar, which starts the counting of weeks to the Festival of Weeks (Shavu'ot) on III/15. With only the sabbath separating him from the counting of weeks to Shavu'ot, the timing is quite appropriate for the author's counting of weeks to the end of the 3 1/2 "times" in ch. 9 and the counting of 3 1/2 "times" in 12:6-7 "before all these things are fulfilled".
(5) The periods of 1,290 days and 1,335 days also may point to the feast of Shavu'ot in the sabbatical calendar. These exceed the period of 3 1/2 years by 30 days and 45 days respectively, and since the 3 1/2 years correspond to the final half-week in ch. 9, these periods of 30 and 45 days transpire after the conclusion of the "seventy weeks" (which conclude with the death of Antiochus, as does ch. 11). The moment that divides the two periods of 3 1/2 years in the apocalyptic survey in ch. 9 is the abolishing of sacrifice and offering after "the people of a ruler who shall come destroy the city and sanctuary", followed later by the installation of the appalling abomination in the Temple (9:26-27). This corresponds to the events concerning Antiochus related in 11:31, which follows the "ships of Kittim" (= Rome) frustrating Antiochus' campaign against Egypt. We know from historical sources that the Roman legate Laenas sailed to Egypt in late June 168 BC and he forced Antiochus to leave Egypt on 30 July 168 BC. Antiochus and his mysarch Apollonius then turned their attention to Judea and they plundered and razed Jerusalem around September 168 BC, allowing them to "forbid burnt offerings, sacrifice, and oblations in the temple and profane the sabbaths and festival days" (1 Maccabees 1:20-53), and then on 15 Chislev (17 December 168 BC) they set up the appalling abomination on the altar and then sacrificed on it on 25 Chislev (i.e. 27 December 168 BC) (cf. 1 Maccabees 1:54-59). This shows that September 168 BC, around the time of the fall equinox of 168 BC, marked the point separating the 3 1/2 years that started with the death of the "anointed one" (high priest Onias III, assassinated in 171 BC, cf. also Daniel 11:22) from the 3 1/2 years that span between the forbidding of sacrifice and oblations to the death of the desolator, i.e. Antiochus. That last event would be placed around the spring equinox of 164 BC, after the restoration and purification of the Temple in December 165 BC (exactly 3 years after it was defiled by the appalling abomination, cf. 1 Maccabees 4:52-55, cf. Josephus, Antiquities 12.320, Jewish War 1.32, who regarded this as fulfilling the prophecy of Daniel). Then the extra 30 days would extend beyond the completion of the seventy weeks of years to cover the first month of the year with the observance of Passover and the Festival of Unfermented Bread. Then the extra 15 days to complete the 1,335 days would lead up to III/15, the festival of Shavu'ot. This is the exact same date that Moses received his revelation of the covenant according to Jubilees, and in Judaism this day was kept sacred for covenant renewing. This is especially appropros, since Daniel was especially interested in the covenant -- both the false covenant that Antiochus imposed on the people (9:27, 11:32, cf. 1 Maccabees 1:11) and the holy covenant that those being resurrected had kept under the pain of death (11:22, 33-35, cf. 1 Maccabees 1:63). The "blessing" experienced at the end of the 1,335 days has its natural referent in 12:2-3 (cf. v. 13). It is also worth noting that this only works with the schematic calendar, as in the lunar calendar Shavu'ot is a moveable feast that can fall anywhere between 4 Sivan to 11 Sivan -- never the 15th of the month.
(6) Boccaccini argues that the 2,300 mornings and evenings of ch. 8 spanning between the cessation of daily sacrifice and the purification of the sanctuary represents a real span of time known to the author, leading from the fall equinox of 168 BC to the purification of the Temple on 25 Chislev 165 BC. Since the Tamid consisted of a morning and evening sacrifice, 2,300 sacrifices are counted as spanning across 1,150 days. He shows that if we count from the fall equinox, 1,150 days would end on VIII/27 which in fact is the date of a significant event in the Megillat Ta'anit from the Maccabean period on which "they began again to bring the offerings of fine flour upon the altar". Boccaccini believes that since the lunar calendar runs ahead of the sabbatical calendar (as it is shorter than the 364-day year), the event mentioned in the Megillat Ta'anit was the same as the purification of the Temple on or around 25 Chislev 165 BC, with the date reckoned according to the schematic calendar instead of the lunar calendar used in 1 Maccabees. The use of equinoxes to compute both the 1,150 and the 1,335 days would also be a distinctive feature of the schematic calendar in which the four solstices and equinoxes are not days belonging to the months but serve as special markers of the seasons.
These different points are not of the same weight, but I would say that the strongest arguments are (2) and (3) which clearly show that Daniel was not using a lunar calendar. Many other features of the book, such as (4) through (6), have rather good explanations if a sabbatical calendar is presumed. The author's clear interest in sabbatical weeks in ch. 9 also fits well with the use of a sabbatical calendar, as does the probable interest in the counting of weeks from the waving of the Omer to the Festival of Weeks (Shavu'ot), and Shavu'ot (on which one renews one's commitment to the covenant) again fits well with the author's strong interest in faithfulness to the covenant.
Gee, we only get 30 minutes to edit posts? Well, this post here is to fix a typo in my last message -- I meant to say "Then the extra 45 days to complete the 1,335 days would lead up to III/15".
Really great thread. Yet another hole in the swiss cheese 1914 theory. Then the sentence that says the "physical evidence" proves their method of calculation! Oh that is rich.
Good job everybody.
I'm using this.
Here are some quotes of the Society incorrectly referring to the calendar having 360 monthly days as a lunar one:
*** w51 6/15 p. 383 Questions From Readers ***
[P]rophecy fixed a system of measurement of its time periods at 360 days for a year or time, calculating 30 full days to a month instead of the actual 29 1/2 days to a lunation. Genesis 7:11, 24; 8:3, 4 shows Noah calculated 30 days roughly to a month. Further confirmation of this unit as a prophetic norm of time is given us at Revelation 11:2, 3, where 42 months are run parallel with 1,260 days, making a year of 12 months equal 360 days. Note also that when Revelation 12:6, 14 parallels 3 1/2 years or times with 1,260 days it takes each time or symbolic year as equal to 360 days, and not 365 1/4 days by saying that the 3 1/2 times equal 1,278 and a fraction days. In 3 1/2 years or times there would be at least one and possibly two intercalary months, as explained by The Watchtower, March 15, 1948, pages 91, 92; yet Revelation ignored such intercalary months in giving the days of the 3 1/2 times. So we figure according to God’s Biblical way and are on firm foundation in saying that the symbolic seven times equal 2,520 years. And these 2,520 years should be counted as solar years, because the Jewish lunar years of 360 days, over long periods of time, kept pace with the solar years by means of the intercalary months added at set intervals, thereby always maintaining the necessary harmony between the year’s beginning and the seasons.
*** w59 4/1 p. 216 par. 40 Part 11—“Your Will Be Done on Earth” ***
The Bible measures by lunar time when speaking of months and years. In Nebuchadnezzar’s case a “time” stood for a lunar year, the average of which was reckoned as 360 days. Actually, a twelve-month lunar year was eleven days shorter than the average solar year. This required the lunar calendar to add a thirteenth month of twenty-nine days to certain years, in order to bring the calendar in agreement with the solar calendar. Addition of a thirteenth month was done seven times in every nineteen years. When speaking of longer periods of time, God said that a day should stand for a whole year. On this basis, then, a lunar year of 360 days would stand for 360 years, “a day for a year, a day for a year.” (Num. 14:34; Ezek. 4:6, AV)
*** w60 4/15 p. 251 par. 18 Part 36—“Your Will Be Done on Earth” ***
The 1,290 days must be treated from the standpoint of the lunar calendar. Hence divine prophecy treats a month as being thirty days long, on the average. The 1,290 days are just thirty days or one lunar month longer than 1,260 days in prophecy. Revelation 11:2, 3 definitely shows that 1,260 days equal forty-two months. Forty-two months amount to three years and six months. In prophecy these three years and six months are not affected by any leap year or by any Jewish Veadar year in which a thirteenth lunar month is added to the Jewish calendar to bring the series of lunar years up to the length of the series of solar years.
*** go [1977] chap. 5 pp. 86-87 par. 36 Foretelling the Time for World Rulership ***
A “time” or lunar “year” used in connection with Bible prophecy averaged 360 days, that is, twelve lunar months averaging 30 days each. (Compare Genesis 7:11 through 8:4.) The “seven times” or “seven years” would therefore amount to 7 times 360 days, or 2,520 days
*** w79 10/15 p. 7 The Millennium—What Is It? ***
Another idea was that a day stood for a year. According to this view, with 360 days in a lunar year, the millennium would be 360,000 years long (360 x 1,000).
*** kc [1981] chap. 14 p. 135 par. 24 The King Reigns! ***
Turning to chapter 12 of Revelation, we note that verses 6 and 14 show a period of 1,260 days to be “a time and times and half a time,” or 1 + 2 + 1/2 for a total of 3 1/2 times. Therefore, “a time” would be equal to 360 days, or 12 lunar months averaging 30 days each.
*** w83 1/1 p. 11 par. 3 The Kingdom Issue to the Fore! ***
The years contained in each time would amount to the number of days in a prophetic lunar year, namely, 360 days.
***w83 8/1 p. 21 par. 18 Israel and the "Times of the Gentiles" ***
In the Bible’s prophetic count of time, a lunar year is calculated as amounting to 360 days. So a symbolic year, or ‘time,’ would amount to 360 calendar years.
The 1959 and 1960 statements are particularly interesting in their references to the absence of a second Adar that normally makes the lunar calendar fit with the actual length of the year. If the lunar calendar is 354 days in length, and if an intercalary month is not added, then how does one go from 354 days to 360 days? Clearly, lunation is besides the point with this calendar. The reckoning of the months has nothing to do with the moon.
Leolaiai,
thanks for all your info. Thoses quotes are great!!!!!!!!!!!!
