by jean-luc picard 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
So, Adam sinned, was unplugged from whatever, and slowly wound down and died.
Satan sinned too. So why wasnt he unplugged, and slowly wound down, to an eventual death as well?
It seems that, left to nature, he will never die, as eventually God is going to have to destroy him.
Good question. That is one of my 100 questions Blondie asked an elder. No answer from 2 elders, just that look "Sister, you have to quit thinking; let the organization handle it."
Good point JLP . . . no consistent application of the law there.
According to God's standards . . . Satan should have been "disfellowshipped" the moment he tempted Eve with a lie . . . so as not to stumble the rest of the "congregation". Where would man be if justice had been administered swiftly and fairly eh?
This is so true. I never thought of a Adam/Satan comparison. Genesis seems utter nonsense to me as anything resembling a literal story. Satan gets away with so much. I wonder why more people don't notice the dichcotomy. Although created, Satan comes across as the equal of God. He is plunged from heaven. Also, Satan is not so evil in Jewish thought. I believe he starts out as an advocate for humans. My reading indicated his emergence into Sympathy for the Devil devil only after Jesus' death to explain the horrible tribulations Christians faced.
Jesus' temptation in the wilderness is strange. If Satan is only an inferior spirit form, why is Christ tempted at all? He commands Satan but Satan commands Jesus, too. Satan does not approach him as an inferior. I am very curious as to how this strand developed.
I was so very, very ill for decades so I read Job and many commentaries carefully for the first time. The start of the book has a narrative intro, that is different in character from the larger poem in Job. What are God and Satan in exile doing discussing Job as though humans were wanton flies, to quote Shakespeare? It revolts me almost as much as Abraham/Isaac. Jesus' death is also bizarre, too. I can't believe the God of all, the creator, the still present in human affairs, requires sacrifice. I can see how humans want to assuage God with sacrifice. Certainly God is not worthy of worship in the beginning of Job. Who created the crocodile answer is beautiful poetry but after so much suffering, I found it off-topic for God.
Thanks for the insight.
Satan is OUR adversay, Not God's.
Satan tempted Christ do see to what extend Christ was human and how much of God he still was.
Satan doesn't do anything, he lies and tempts and tries to lead people away to show how underserving we are of God's grace BUT he doesn't do it, we do it.
Satan may have tempted Adam and Eve and Us, but he doesn't force Us or forced them to do anything.
That is a great question! Could the explanation be in the fact that Adam was human, but Satan is a spirit? Also, the WaterTower Bovine & Tractor Society would say that Adam's sin had nothing to do with divine soverignty but Satan's rebellion did raise this issue, so God had to let Satan continue to exist to settle that issue. (Hasn't it been settled yet? Seems to me human suffering and death could be halted at any time now, I wouldn't object). Any difficult question can be rational-lied by the WTB&TS.
Here's another question: The Israelites left Egypt with a great supply of Egyptian livestock. Yet in a short time they had no food and needer manna. What happened to all that livestock?
I'm an agnostic because of questions like this and because I have read the bible cover to cover 7 times.
I will say the short and simple answer to one law for Adam and another for Satin is Satin is a spirit like God
and Adam was a material being.
As far as the question on the Egyptian live stock.
Its a what if question.
The first question is, are the stories in the bible true?
If you want to go with the premise that they are.
Then you will find an answer to any questions that raise incoherencies regarding the question.
If you dont beleive they are true than you wont find and answer. Or any answer you find wont be acceptable.
If your an agnostic like I am you will find an incoherency and an answer and you still wont know what to believe.
So that tells me If one wants the biblical salvation they have to take the leap and be saved by faith.
The short and simple answer to the dissappearing live stock is.
Wandering in the wilderness they died off.
Some could have wandered off, stampeded off.
Probably died do to the extreme harsh conditions of being lost in the wilderness.
One questions leads to another and the house of cards falls down.
But the house of cards can magically and gloriously reasemble itself before your eyes by injecting a shot
of faith.
Last night at work I read the book of Romans and its not even as simple as having faith.
According to the bible everything is predestined. Especially according to the book of Romans.
We are predestined to be believers, agnostics, and atheist.
Theres really nothing we can do about it but sit back and enjoy the ride.
Hitler had no choice but to be Hitler. Bush had no choice but to be Bush. The pope had no choice but to be the pope
and on and on and on.
PC,
Satan doesn't do anything, he lies and tempts and tries to lead people away to show how underserving we are of God's grace BUT he doesn't do it, we do it.
So if I tell (or tempt) a child to fire the gun at someone and the child does and kills a person, I will not be charged with murder, right? I didn't do it, the child did it.
I didn't know Satan is OUR adversay, Not God's.
Satan tempted Christ do see to what extend Christ was human and how much of God he still was. Is Satan Jesus (God the Son) adversary also? Or is he only the adversary of the human part of Christ?
If Satan (the Beelzebub - Ruler of the demons) does not do anything, what about his demon servants? Reading the gospels, I get the impression that they are the ones DOING, using the possessed merely as puppets. Only after expelling them, do the humans get back their right mind. The possessed-person didn't do it, Satans servant did it. Read Mark 5:1-20 for example http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+5%3A1-20&version=NIV
Is there one law for humans, another for demons?
fts
If God is omnipotent, what is an inferior spirit to him. He certainly knows how to quash humans like we quash roaches. The authors of the book I am now reading say the Bible can be read on many levels at once. Fundamentalists do not believe more than one interpretation is present. Other cultures have more exciting stories. I try to see universal principles in the NT.
The God/Satan dichotomy reminds me of a sarcastic joke during the Viet Nam War. Sen. Aiken from Vermont was a vocall opponent to Johnson'w war, despite being a fellow Dem. He told Johnson to declare the war a success and leave. I think we ended up doing that. A whole lot of boys died so I can buy Vietnamese blue jeans.
So why wasnt he unplugged, and slowly wound down, to an eventual death as well?
He was and is, dear JLP (peace to you!). Even spirit beings ate from the Tree of Life, Christ. (Psalm 78:25; 6:48, 51; John 15:1, 5; 14:6; Genesis 3:22; Rev. 22:2).
Like Adham, Satan was also cut off from eating from that Tree (Christ), the cutting off of which weakens a spirit being, when he was cursed to go upon his belly. As a disgusting (and thus, unclean) thing, he could no longer partake of its "leaves" so as to be "cured". (Genesis 3:14; Rev. 2:22). Eventually, he was weak enough to be ousted from the spirit realm (John 12:31;Rev. 12:9; Ezekiel 28:17).
Soon, he will be weak enough to be chained and abyssed (Rev. 20:2)... after which he will be weak enough to be returned to the Lake of Fire (from which he was created - Ezekiel 28:13, 14) and destroyed... by that very fire (Rev. 20:10; Ezekiel 28:18).
It takes much longer with spirit beings because they don't die - they must be destroyed... by fire. (Matthew 10:28).
Which is why the NEXT time the earth is cleansed, it won't be by water (which only confines spirits - Genesis 7:11; Mark 5:12, 13; 2 Peter 2:4, 5) but by fire. (2 Peter 3:5-7; Rev. 20:9)
The Adversary's day of reckoning will come, dear one... and it won't be late. I realize that some will bemoan that so many have died since Adham's error. Take heart: almost all will be returned to life... and at time when there is no more outcry, mourning, or pain.
Again, I bid you peace!
A slave of Christ,
SA
