This is directed mostly toward those here who will not turn it into a firefight. Though, if it turns to one, that may also aid my argument.
I am discussing with a young woman whom I have known for several years now [a devout, home-schooled, Christian] the matter of gay/lesbian choice. Her viewpoint [based on the Bible of course] is that homosexuality is 'chosen', is an abomination, and endangers ones relationship with God.
My opinion [as a humanist and atheist] is that homosexuality could be chosen by some, but that many, if not most, gay people are not making a choice in the matter, but are compelled by either genetics or influenced by psychological impact from childhood.
That's the gist of the argument. She challenged my view, then backed off of further discussion for several weeks. She has now replied - and while I find her arguments very weak, and indeed filled with fantastic acceptance of the Bible as basis - I would like to make intelligent reply to her. I have in mind what to say in rebuttal of her arguments, but I want to be careful not to insult her, as she is a friend. At the same time, I do not wish to ignore her ignorance in the matter.
Below is the portion of her arguments that I would like to address specifically in Bold Blue:
? In Leviticus 18 God plainly lays out what He considers immoral relations (If you have a Bible available I would suggest you look it up for yourself. See if I am stating what it says. If you do not have one, I could easily get one for you) and more specifically in verse 22 He says: “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.” Later on in Leviticus 20 He again states the immoralities and in verse 13 reiterates: “If there is a man who lies with a make as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them.”
4)Demonstrate Compassion---Jesus’ Chief Attribute – I hope I do just this for every lesbian and homosexual I meet. Although I have had little opportunities except with the family I have mentioned. The parable of the unforgiving servant is not forgotten. There are those that claim to be Christians that do bash the gays. I agree with Blake, we must remember that we were forgiven for our other sinful deeds too. However, as I was browsing and skimming his web site I read his basic viewpoint: "What I would like so much to see is, first, that our church members understand what homosexuality really is and the difference between the condition and the behavior. My second wish is that our children, while they are young, understand that being a homosexual is not a sin -- it's a handicap that God can help them live with.”
I am sad to say that he is wrong here. This is the nitty-gritty: homosexuality is a sin. The verses I gave above found in the Old Testament point to that. It is also found in the New Testament. And I cannot deny it is like any other sin. It is not less or more a sin, it is the same as any other and we cannot claim to get God’s goodness with sin:
“Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate nor homosexuals, nor thieves nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.”
--1 Corinthians 6:9-10
What does this mean then? As a follower of God, we cannot pick and choose what we want, we must deny ourselves: “And He was saying to them all, ‘If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake, he is the one who will save it.’” –Luke 9:23-24
So why do I believe it is a choice to be gay or lesbian? In Romans Chapter 1:18-32 it talks on how God lets us decide to do wrong even though we know we know His wrath against our sin. God’s way has been revealed to us, it is up to us to follow:
“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the World His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse……For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper……” –Romans 1:18-28
Thoughts? I find it increasingly difficult to organize arguments against those who use the Bible as their sole weapon, having seen it so repeatedly demonstrated to be false and foolish and full of insanity and drivel [often so strongly reinforced by Christians on this site and others who blindly defend it]. In addition, I am aware of the fact that for those who wish to believe in fairy-tales and fantasy [religious people], it is akin to arguing with Jw's - impossible to battle close-mindedness [especially if that close-mindedness is thought to bring everlasting bliss if they keep it closed]. SO in many ways it seems as if the best course is to just let these ignorant people alone. But, I am glad that my ignorance was shattered a few years ago, and wish it had happened much sooner. Torn...
Jeff