Defending homosexuality as NOT a choice -

by AK - Jeff 99 Replies latest members adult

• 

  PSacramento

  To those that are homosexual, the pain that you feel in being rejected is real and I feel for you, but realize that it is not God or Jesus that is rejecting you but fearful and ignorant Man.

  God loves you, you are children of His creation and Our Lord loves you and if you obey his commandment to Love each other as He loves Us then you to are doing the will of God in heaven,

  Our Lord is here for you and will strengthen you in what you need strength and he will do this by the power of His Love for YOU.

  Don't turn away from Our Lord because some of his followers have turned from you, Our Lord is NOT his followers and his followers are broken and fallen and in need of help like everyone else.

  Hate and intolerance is a sign of NOT ENOUGH Christ, not a sign of too much Christ.
• 

  freydo

  This thread reminds me of something about evolution I once heard that certain types of individuals cannot understand,

  namely that evolution, taking two monkeys and coming up with a human, is impossible because chromosomes would be missing

  But you can go the other way and take two humans and come up with something pretty close to monkey.
• 

  PSacramento

  namely that evolution, taking two monkeys and coming up with a human, is impossible because chromosomes would be missing

  Dude, if THAT is what you think evolution states then, wow !
• 

  ProdigalSon

  Of course homosexuality is not a choice.... unless you're bisexual!

  In any event, reincarnation and karma explains it all once again......

  "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, so that he was born blind (gay)? Jesus answered, 'Neither this man sinned nor his parents, but it was in order that the works of God might be made manifest in his case." ~John 9:2,3.

  Hmmmm.... a little research shows that reincarnation and karma were the accepted "norm" in those days. The early church fathers...Josephus.... And here, clearly they were talking about this man being afflicted with BLINDNESS because of "sin".....from birth! This cannot be the same as "inherited sin" from Adam, or we'd ALL be born with some type of horrible affliction. Jesus did not "correct" them for asking such a question, as a pompous, judgmental JW elder surely would.... the works of God....are we evolving? Are we learning life lessons? Is homosexuality a sign of past sexual, let's say, "imbalance" in a previous life or lives? Perhaps they tortured or killed a few "homos" in a previous life, and now they have to find out what its like?
• 

  jah1914

  This statement only matters to those hanging upon traditional 'christian' beliefs while trying to approach worship 'buffet-style'. If you do not place a high value on religious belief systems as I don't then it does not apply to you.First off sexual orientation has nothing to do with how a christian should treat others period..........a christian should love regardless.

  Homosexual feelings, Hetrosexual feelings, beastual feelings. They are all normal feelings and no one chooses to be one or the other. If we are talking merely a traditional bibilical view, the only choice is whether we act on the feelings within the strict bounderies of "Gods" (and I use that term loosely) Word. According to that both those with homosexual feelings and those with hetrosexual feelings had bounderies on their 'actions'. The bible never says it is wrong to feel a certain way about sexuality, it says that it is improper to act on certain feelings. A hetrosexual may want to freak a different woman every night and have 20 wives and 80 mistresses on the side, but if he strictly follows the christian worldview, then he can't act on that feeling, he needs to be in a committed relationship to enjoy physical intimacy.

  It is perfectly fine for homosexuals to feel the way they do. They may want the physical, sexual intimacy, but according to the the christian worldview, God has placed a boundary that says, do not act on that feeling.

  We may all disagree, and no I am not comparing people that want intimacy with animals to homosexuals, but someone may honestly have an attraction to animals for whatever reason, but God has place a boundary that says, do not act on that feeling.

  So should not be the feeling, but the action that 'christians' should find exception with, problem is that most christians don't even know what they believe well enough to articulate it well. It could have just as well been the other way around.

  Anyway enough of my ranting.....as I said before....time for me to go pop some pills so don't pay attention to anything I just said......
• 

  chickpea

  ex-gay? no way....

  The purveyors of "reparative therapy" are well outside mainstream research and thinking in the psychotherapeutic world. They rail constantly that their work is being subverted by the professional associations, which they claim were hijacked in the 1970s by activist gay members into removing homosexuality from the official lists of mental disorders. http://www.csufresno.edu/StudentOrgs/usp/resources/flyers/missionimpossible.htm

  (i have no intention of c/p the entire article)

  also.... posted this some time back on another xjw forum
  while attending a mainline church's summer bible study about
  how the churches can become "reconciled in christ" ( look for
  RIC on church marquees.... indicates welcoming and affirming
  of LGBTQ)

  this past week the bible study
  i had mentioned i was undertaking
  focused on what the bible really
  says about the sin of sodom , which
  is so often the basis of fundie Xns'
  attacks on homosexuals..... (gen 19:1-11)
  
  firstly, the names of sodom
  and gomorrha are descriptive
  names of the destruction rained
  down upon these two cities
  sodom from a hebrew word for burnt
  and gomorrha meaning pile of ruins
  
  remember from gen 13 that abram and lot
  separated from one another as their holdings
  overlapped and contentious behaviour was
  being exhibited by their herdsmen....

  lot choose to go in the direction of the river jordan...
  
  the city that came to be known as sodom
  was wealthy and its inhabitants greedy,
  as attested to in rabbinical writings quoting

  ezekiel 16:46-50 This was the guilt of your sister Sodom : she and her daughters had pride, excess of food and prosperous ease, but did not aid the poor and needy. They were haughty and did abominable things before me; therefore I removed them when I saw it.
  
  further traditional rabbinical descriptions of sodom
  
  Rabbi Nathaniel said: The men of Sodom had no consideration for the honour of their Owner by not distributing food to the wayfarer and stranger, but they even fenced in all the trees on top above their fruit so that so that they should not be seized; not even by the bird of heaven...
  
  a point was made that the inhabitants of sodom
  were so jealous of their wealth that a stranger
  coming into their midst was suspected of desiring
  to usurp some of that wealth and they were treated
  maliciously and despicably, ie raped and robbed, in
  order to discourage their settling there... heterosexuals
  using rape in the way prison rape is used, as coercion
  and a violent show of power...

  lot apparently escaped this treatment as he brought
  his own wealth with him
  
  the jewish tradition teaches it was their
  overwhelming inhospitality that brought
  wrath from the heavens upon them....
• 

  Zico

  I don't think you're about to convince her that she's wrong on homosexuality, if I've learned anything from hours of talking to Jehovah's Witnesses, various fundamentalists, and political partisans, is that it's not easy to change minds, even when it seems so obvious to you that they're wrong.

  For starters, I can tell you've got an uphill battle based on the fact that her reading comprehension isn't great:

  ""What I would like so much to see is, first, that our church members understand what homosexuality really is and the difference between the condition and the behavior. My second wish is that our children, while they are young, understand that being a homosexual is not a sin -- it's a handicap that God can help them live with.”

  I am sad to say that he is wrong here. This is the nitty-gritty: homosexuality is a sin."

  Isn't it obvious that she's talking about something entirely different than the person she quotes?

  I'd recommend 'Love is an orientation' by Andrew Marin.
• 

  Band on the Run

  Could we list expressly racist comments? Most churches preached racism and some expressly endorsed slavery b/c of Paul's comments for slaves to keep their present status. There are far more citations to scriptures embracing love than condemning homosexuallity. Also, I know that either Jesus or Shakespeare said that Satan could quote scripture for his purpose.

  Make up any proposition, no matter how far-fetched, I can find Biblical evidence to support it the way the Society works.
• 

  factfinder

  @Prodigal Son- I take offense at what you said. I have not harmed anyone, in this life nor in any make believe past one- so that I should be punished by being given homosexual desires instead of heterosexual ones. It is not my fault I was born gay and with the physical problems I have.

  I do not act on my feelings nor look for opportunities to do so. But given the chance with the right person- I would. I did not commit any sins against homosexuals in any past life. Reincarnation is more of a falsehood than any teachings of JWS!

  @jah1914- thanks for the encouragement that God and Jesus loves me. But since discovering that my deeply long-help beliefs as one of JWs are false, my feelings toward God have become ever more negative. And while I still accept that Jesus is the messiah- it has become more and more academic and trivial to me.

  I have a lot of things to work out as to what to believe in anymore, if anything.

  @chicpea- thank you for the background information from rabbinical sources about sodom and gomorrah- it was not just for homosexual acts that they were destroyed.

  I was born with blue eyes, blond hair and homosexual desires and I had no choice or control over either. Yes- Jewish people have blue eyes! I say this because in 1979 there was a special full-color edition of the Dec. 15 WT that featured Jesus on the cover with blue eyes and all I kept hearing was how it was wrong because he was a Jew and could not have blue eyes! Many of my relatives have blue eyes yet were all natural jews by birth with both parents born Jewish! anyway... sorry for getting off topic!
• 

  brotherdan

  I haven't read through the entire thread yet, but I wanted to give my 2 cents.

  Sure, the Bible says that men that lie with men and women that are kept for unatural purposes is a sin. (1Cor 6:9 and Romans 1:26,27)

  The Bible also says that it is a sin to lie, cheat, steal, look at a woman with lust, etc...

  Which one of us can say that we haven't done those things? If anyone has not, then let him cast the first stone. If not, then let him keep quiet and not worry about the other persons relationship with God.

  I cannot resolve in my own mind that homosexuality is necessarily a choice, just as heterosexuality is not a choice. God understands all things and loves all people.