Posts by StarTrekAngel

15

Infuriating Elder recorded on JWStruggle

by dhlpcjw in

help from a loving jehovah's witness elder part 1. this elder is clearly out of touch with all emotion period as this poor girl pours her heart out to him.

can these untrained, unloving, pharisees possibly be fit to represent a god of love?

a god of anything?

StarTrekAngel

This a-hole is trying to cover his tracks. He does not like writing because it leaves a paper trail of his words.

4

I saw Jehovah's hand at work this week

by StarTrekAngel in

ok, before i get flamed, the title does have sarcasm built in.

at the same time, i can not ignore the line of events as they occurred this past couple of weeks.

while this has not made any of my relatives make any sudden changes, i believe it has put at least my wife to think.. we had a family event this past weekend in a nearby town.

Ok, before I get flamed, the title does have sarcasm built in. At the same time, I can not ignore the line of events as they occurred this past couple of weeks. While this has not made any of my relatives make any sudden changes, I believe it has put at least my wife to think.

We had a family event this past weekend in a nearby town. Attending required us to drive about 2 hours and have an overnight stay at a hotel. We have relatives in the area (who are JWs as well) but their house isn't big enough to have everyone sleep over at once. We booked a couple of rooms and on our way there, my MIL called her son to see if he was coming as well and if so, to ask if they had a room. She asked because she knows he is not that well off financially and she is always willing to support him in occasions like this, when we can get the family all together in one place. He answered that he would go but he would not stay. It was Saturday night and he had made a promise to visit with a potential study Sunday morning. Not long before that, he had planned on going on vacation and he was taking her (MIL) along. He came back from work like around 7:00 PM but rather than picking her up to depart (it was a 5 hour drive), he had a study to go to. He did not show up to pick her up until about 10:00 PM that night.

After hanging out the phone she made the comment to my wife "you know your brother, always living like if the end was coming tomorrow" and "You know his attitude, your studies can fail you but you can not fail your studies". She was also concerned, not only because he would have to drive late at night but also the weather has been pretty bad lately.

The reason I am bringing this up is because this line of events was the door opener for a conversation between my wife and I. Earlier this week we were chatting about a couple from our hall who are undocumented immigrants. In the past couple of years and because of the changes the Obama administration has introduced, they were able to get some documents to remain legal (at least for the time being) and ever since they did, they have changed quite a bit. They are a humble family, financially speaking, and their jobs are still the same. However, it seems that ever since they got their documents, their attitude has changed. They just bought a ranch and a brand new truck. Not sure how they did it. My wife and I were talking about that. We agreed that while we did not agree with their choices, it was their life and so who cares, right?. Funny enough, I tend to be the more vocal of the two but this time she went on as far as to say how she felt it was unfair. She mentioned this because some of their income comes from an informal business in which we know they do not report any income to the IRS. Wife said she was pretty sure that not one of the elders had approached them to remind them that they need to comply with Cesar's law.

Here is where I see the door open and I tell her "Well, I can tell you from all the research I've done, and I know we don't see eye to eye on this, that as long as they keep making donations, no one is going to question that." Wife says I am assuming. I re assure her that I am not assuming anything, that I know. She smiles in disbelief. She questions my sources. I tell her my sources are from the organization itself, that just the last broadcast (which she has not seen, not one of them) speaks of the money problems they (WT) are having. We go on to calmly discuss money matters on regards of the WT and she asks where I think the money is going. I tell her I think is going to the cycle of things and to support people who have no need, that even if what the GB or anyone else there get just a small payment, they have no cost of life. Is all profit. She asked me why that bothered me so much and I tell her that it is because of the methods use to gather all of that money, the undue influence. I said, just look at your brother and the things he did the past two weeks. She insists that is just the way her brother is and I said "that may be the case but I would be ok with his lack of ambitions if it came from his own device, rather than being told to be this way so that someone else may benefit from this.

Ever since I downloaded the May KM, I've been waiting to see what the local needs section was going to be about. I had a hunch that it was going to surround around money, given the speech by Mr Lett in the broadcast. Its been a while since I actually attended a meeting without regretting it. I was actually looking forward to it this week. When we got to the local needs portion and it was announced who was going to give the talk, I was beginning to feel a warmth inside of me, similar to what you felt that day when that girl you were attracted to, happen to confirm she is attracted to you too. The elder assigned to the talk is following porn stars in facebook and I know he had a hard time getting appointed as elder. I have a feeling he abuses his wife (can't confirm it though) but I know for a fact it took more than one try to get him confirmed as elder. My wife knows this.

As soon as he started I knew the tone of the talk... well dear brothers, the local needs today is about how we can honor Jehovah with... (clears throat).. our valuable things. He went on to say that this was not their choice of talk but that rather the governing body had emphasized the need to confirm what was said in the broadcast. He quoted Mr Lett saying "we project the expenses for next year will be bigger than our income", etc ,etc. It was exactly as I could have prayed about. I got to admit I did not pray for this, at least not officially. He also read the letter (as a way to show their appreciation for our contributions) where they (bethel) acknowledges the receipt of the donation to the KH construction work. He made it sound like they were thanking us for our voluntary donations. I believe very few in there realized that the amount mentioned was not the amount collected from the box, but rather the agreed upon amount that will be send every month until the Big A comes.

I had to use every muscle in my body to not scream "I told you so" (I am learning that is not productive) but I know my wife was recalling every word of our last conversation.

I just had to show you, brothers, how Jehovah works...

P.S.: To top it off, one of the school ministry talks was titled "How to manage money properly" and emphasis was put on the words by Jesus... who builds a house without first calculating the cost?

This really made my week....

18

Undue influence - other areas in life

by DavidG in

jw
friends

after gradually waking up to ttatt im finding myself with this question:.

since it is so easy to be indoctrinated with jw beliefs, are there other areas in my life where i'm also under influance of other false beliefs?

from the culture i've grown up with, school etc?.

StarTrekAngel

Yeah, I think and easier question would be.. where are we NOT influenced by something or somebody. Even our hormones influence the outcomes of our decisions. But speaking specifically of influence by other persons, well, it is just everywhere nowadays. Now, the problem is, whenever or whomever uses that power to implant dogma on you. Marketing specially is where all of this evil devices of conviction are created. They are then adopted by every industry to try and get you to buy their product, side with their political views, etc. I have come to grips with that idea and willing to accept that I can not escape influence, so long that influence is not used to convince me that I should not listen to the other side of the story. So long that influence is not used on family to turn them against me or to have them make a life threatening medical decision.

50

Newspaper article: 'Rise of ISIS and earthquakes are WARNINGS before ARMAGEDDON destroys Earth'

by AndersonsInfo in

http://www.express.co.uk/news/nature/581439/rise-isis-earthquakes-warnings-before-armageddon-apocalypse-end-destroys-volcanoes-earth.

the "end" of mankind, which has been long predicted by jehovah's witnesses, could happen as soon as this year - according to latest announcement from the christian religion.. in the latest edition of jehovah's witnesses monthly publication watchtower, an article translated into 700 languages - urges people to join the religion or face certain death when god sends his forces from the heavens to "remove all world leaders," "exterminate his enemies" and "rid the world of satan".. critics have lambasted the warning of a coming armageddon as yet another "failed prediction" by the religion, which has previously delivered similar alerts such as a foretold apocalypse in 1975.. indeed, jehovah's witnesses have been warning people of the need to recognise jehovah or face certain death when the "end" comes for more than 100 years.. the christian-based religion was founded in the 1870s by charles taze russell in pittsburgh, pennsylvania, us, as an offshoot from the bible studies movement.. today, there are 8.2million jehovah's witness evangelists, while 19.9 million celebrated their annual memorial festival marking christ's death - worldwide in 2014.. followers do not believe in military service and will not accept blood transfusions.. in a new eight-page article, watchtower said jehovah's witness leaders are now "convinced" humans are in their "final days" before the armageddon.. they cite an increase in global armed conflict, such as the rise of the islamic state terror group, as well as natural disasters such as volcanoes and earthquakes.. the lengthy article, written by an unnamed author, said: "will god let humans continue to dominate one another and threaten the future of mankind?

no, as we have seen, he will step in and bring an end to centuries of misery and oppression.

StarTrekAngel

"... In a similar way, God has given us his word, which describes striking global trends"

".. For over one hundred years, this magazine has been providing its readers with information about world events to help them personally verify that we are nearing the end."

"..For example, in 2014, the Science and Security Board of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists warned the UN Security Council about major threats to the existence of mankind...Many people are increasingly convinced that we have reached a pivotal point in world history..."

The striking trends I see, are the striking similarities between this narrative and the ones quoted from "Famine 1975" and how trusted its contents were at the time.

40

Intelligent design my ass

by Doltologist in

so man was made by god in his image was he?.

so the human body was intelligently designed was it?.

you are kidding me !!.

StarTrekAngel

I would want you think about again why you do want your testicles to be outside, the next time you are with a wild girl. May be JWs would never be able to explain that one.

40

Intelligent design my ass

by Doltologist in

so man was made by god in his image was he?.

so the human body was intelligently designed was it?.

you are kidding me !!.

StarTrekAngel

Yep. there is quite a bit of assumptions being made here (in my opinion) and I don't side with any particular idea. I prefer to try to gap both. Off course, from limited knowledge and unlimited ignorance. We can seat here all day and argue over DNA, but none of us (or at least most of us) are bio engineers here, so lets face it. We don't know for sure.

Just because we hear in the news that a new gene responsible for cancer has been found, it doesn't mean God is at fault. I am not defending God here, I am just pointing out the obvious. Whatever origin you believe on, the truth is that we've been on earth for a very very long time. Whomever designed us, is far separated from the current state of affairs. The question would be, as an organism, are we getting better (naturally speaking) or are we deteriorating as a result of the environment we created around us. Science is beginning to realize that DNA is not absolute. That the sole presence of a gene is not deterministic and that such gene has be allowed to express its information in order for that cancer to begin. That's most likely why no DNA test will ever "assure you" of your chances of getting cancer, they only give a percentage.

One thing I argue with JWs when it comes to the subject of "intelligent design" is their stand on the matter. Unless I misunderstood, they believe that Jehovah is in control of the universe always making sure everything is in the right place. Evolution is no-no because God created us at his image. My question would be... who is more powerful and wise? Someone who creates a machine that needs constant watching and adjusting, or someone who creates a machine that can manage and control itself? Does God need to be constantly adjusting and watching the universe? or would it make more sense to think that an all knowing all powerful God, created a universe and then set laws into place so that the universe will work by itself? In a nutshell, they seem to think that an appearance of God being able to do so much at once is a show of power, when in reality is the other way around. This is a perfect example of mankind trying to adjust their environment to fit their belief. No science is free of this problem. We all know that and many fence-seating JWs have come here to point that out. Difference is that science is no dogma.

Like someone else pointed, the universe if full of "Faults", but as a race we have learned that those faults have given way to the universe as we know it today. The human body is no exception. Wether those faults are causing us to live less, or they show that God does not exist, well you are free to conclude. What I think we can conclude for sure is that, wether God or evolution are the catalyst for the creation of man, the location of your butt-hole is not definite evidence of either one and neither is DNA.

25

Watchtower Society and Science

by FusionTheism in

is the governing body's methods and practices all that much different from the way scientists work?.

some prominent scientists and big media in the 1970's were pushing imminent disaster from global cooling.

now its global warming and they all sweep the global cooling fiasco under the rug and act like it was just one or two rogue individuals.. other examples can be given: scientists being wrong on the eternal universe, black holes, whether eggs or coffee are healthy or harmful, presenting fake fossils, etc.

StarTrekAngel

Scientists don't work for people magazine. The source of the information may not be the problem. Just like the WTBTS, is the interpreter and editor who are the problem. Magazines have agendas too. This often happens a lot with news regarding nutrition for example. The scientists say something and present all of the assumptions they made in the study. The magazines throw the assumptions away and present the results as facts. Is nothing but another form of religion to grasp to one and only one source of information. If a particular scientific subject is dear to you, research all sides of the story.

12

Revised New World Translation

by FusionTheism in

i just wanted to put it out there that i am actually truly impressed by the revised nwt.

i think it's an awesome bible version.. the only issues i have are that it should only have "jehovah" in the new testament when quoting the old, and the alternate translation of john 1:1 in the footnote should be in the main text..

StarTrekAngel

One key change to the revised translation is the removal of the beginning of John chapter 8. Remember the good old "Whomever is free of sin, let him cast the first stone?" That part is conveniently gone from the revised version.

Also Mark Chapter 16, where Jesus adds to the commandment of preaching the good news by saying "This signs would accompany those who believe, you will expel demons, cure sickness, etc" and much more.

Those are very inconvenient paragraphs for the JW core doctrine. Forgiveness in the face of proven sin and the performing of miracles as proof of your backing by Jesus.

Is also notable that even smaller words have profound effects in the change of rhetoric. We could all see the video where brother Lett speaks of our responsibility to "uphold" the oneness of the spirit rather than "observe" the oneness of spirit. He says it himself, the new revised edition shows us we have to do more than merely observe. He claims we have a responsibility to share in keeping unity. (unity over biblical truth, that is)

25

Fornicate and keep quiet, is it possible for a Governing Body member?

by John Aquila in

do you think any of the members of the governing body have at one time in their lives committed an immoral sex act but never confessed?

remember leo greenlees.

fornication, adultery or something else?

StarTrekAngel

One of the elders in my congregation follows an 18 year old porn start in facebook. Someone from Spain who posts pictures of the backstage of her movies. Plus posts updates of things like "traveling to Barcelona, going to the bathroom to masturbate"

I know he had a hard time being appointed elder and I saw a letter in one of the computers where they had to clarify something to the CO before he was confirmed elder. I am not sure what they were referring to but the letter pointed to a "misunderstanding".

In my own judgement, I am pretty sure this man abuses his wife emotionally. You can read in her face.

14

WT started using the internet in 1997, brother said

by StarTrekAngel in

so brohter (not elder or anything but many years active) had to give talk this week.

talk related to how jehovah gives abilities to people thru the spirit.

started off with the mention of how god told moises to build the tent and gave people the abilities to work wood, stone, etc.

StarTrekAngel

So brohter (not elder or anything but many years active) had to give talk this week. Talk related to how Jehovah gives abilities to people thru the spirit. Started off with the mention of how God told Moises to build the tent and gave people the abilities to work wood, stone, etc. He then went on to mention the amount of work that goes on the publishing work, finalizing with the new TV broadcasting, etc. One of his quotes mentioned how the society launched their first website in 1997, to provide publications , etc. He forgot that in 1997, watchtower.org was nothing more than a placeholder. It had nothing in it. He also forgot to mention how the internet was demonized for many years. Oh poor brother, he is a bit old after all. May be losing his memory.