thanks for the input sloppyjoe2.. I guess is part of being left to the device of the local elders... I guess it is alive and kicking on some cong. IF this was truly instructed by the org, though, it would happen in all of them
StarTrekAngel
JoinedPosts by StarTrekAngel
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StarTrekAngel
Hey hamsterbait... which WT is that?
label licker.. do you have any links to information on the case you are talking about?
Thanks
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StarTrekAngel
Thanks sloppyjoe,
Specifically speaking blood. My take on the blood issue is that the change would have to come in the form of time. Long enough that no one would remember about the last person that died refusing a blood transfusion. Long enough that if so someone does, it could be chalked up to personal choice and not influence. In the meantine, they need to continue working with the medical community on alternatives because there is still too many members that stand strong on the subject. They need to avoid as many deaths as possible while the issue is forgotten. To make a sudden change would bring way more lawsuits than they can handle.
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JW TV - One Further Step Towards Making the Organization Soft & Cuddly
by steve2 inone of the more astonishing developments within the organization in recent years is the muting of the more "out there" behaviors of this once fiercely confrontational and proud end-times religious group.. members were unapologetically no part of the world and couldn't give a rat's ar*e what you thought of them.
whereas the organisation fostered an outlook of warning the "wicked" world of the imminence of its destruction at the hands of the almighty - and spared no effort in doing so - nowadays the organization is sucking in its more "loose cannon" elements.
in the place of these elements is a sparkling, smiling, airbrushed group of worshippers who parade their wholesome settled lifestyle to win converts.
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StarTrekAngel
How is it that no one is commenting on the bling that the presenter is wearing on the intro video? Where is the humbleness and simplicity?
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JW TV - One Further Step Towards Making the Organization Soft & Cuddly
by steve2 inone of the more astonishing developments within the organization in recent years is the muting of the more "out there" behaviors of this once fiercely confrontational and proud end-times religious group.. members were unapologetically no part of the world and couldn't give a rat's ar*e what you thought of them.
whereas the organisation fostered an outlook of warning the "wicked" world of the imminence of its destruction at the hands of the almighty - and spared no effort in doing so - nowadays the organization is sucking in its more "loose cannon" elements.
in the place of these elements is a sparkling, smiling, airbrushed group of worshippers who parade their wholesome settled lifestyle to win converts.
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StarTrekAngel
That would be nice Thisismytigersuit. They host the www part of their internet presence on the akamai cloud, though, not as easy to hack as if they would do it on their own servers. I am pretty sure too that the hosting is distributed enough that if you hack it, it may appear hacked to some users but not all.
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StarTrekAngel
Much is being written these days as to where is the org going. There is no doubt that the steering wheel is moving. Many of us are like that child, sleeping in the back seat on our way to disney. After hours of driving, we feel the car changing direction, still sleepy, we mumble... are we there yet? Then we begin to look around for clues that would tell where we are exactly.
Many of us who dare to look outside the box (pund intended) can easily tell we are going somewhere. My curiosity has always been, though, what about those inside the box? While the answer seems to be the obvious "they are brainwashed and could never tell", the truth is that no change comes without pain. That is a fact of life, no matter what you believe in. You can not make the change too suddenly.
With that in mind, most of the changes coming are usually hinted at in publications. Most times they are too subtle to notice while you are half asleep during the WT study. For the most part, only once you notice the bigger picture and go back in your magazines, then you realize you were being told about this, but just did not notice. Although I would say that such awareness of change goes more like this...
You notice something new...
You question the elder...
Elder points to magazine, either inmediately or at a later time...
Elder makes you feel less of a Christian because you were not paying attention...
You walked away in shame...
You are now way more suceptible than before to follow suit, even if you disagree...
Here is one example (although I don't dare to bring this one up and correct me if I am wrong) but I recall many years ago, we use to have a special section of a meeting, every year, dedicated to analyzing the issue of blood transfusion in detail. We would also take the chance to make this special meeting into a "sign-your-no-blood-card rally". Everyone who was ready to do it would then feel specially encouraged to proceed. Its taken me quite a while to notice that, at least in our cong, we have not done any of the above for at least 3 to 4 years.
With this long intro, I am attempting to analyze change from the inside. What subtle CYA (cover your a$$) hints at change are coming that most JWs won't notice? I can't tell them all because I've only started doing this recently, but here is what I can recall
- The blood issue mentioned above.
- While not as strange, financial statements in my cong have not been read publicly for years now. Only posted on the board
- We use to make sure to add the "our work is funded by voluntary donations" at the end of every presentation and the KM was specially used to remind us of it. Have not heard this mentioned in years.
I am sure there is more.
One thing that specially caught my attention was the July WT. I know JWsurvey has an extensive article on this. I noticed something else, in addition to what Cedars has published, that may hint at a change. I am trying to get as much input as possible because I want to make sure I am not reading too much into it.
Look at the article titled "Jehovah know those who belong to him". Take a chance and read the whole thing and tell me if it doesn't tell you that apostates may be seen differently in the future? To me, the verbage used seems to imply that faithful servants of the org, should not question why Jehovah does not deal with those who are clearly apostasizying. Let me put out some bullet points on this..
- Pargraph 4 explains how Paul wrote to Timothy about the harm of apostasy but clarified "Despite that, the solid foundation of God remains standing..". It then proceeds to have a detailed explanation about how these were good choice of words. It explains the significance of the "foundation" in the first century and the seal that some foundations use to have. In a nutshell, no matter who lives in the house, the seal of Jehovah is there for those that are "known to him".
- There is hardly any mention on how the cong and the BOE deals with apostates and why. Most of the focus is on how God is not going to remain inactive and HE, not YOU, would take care of it.
- Paragraph 15 goes as far as discouraging judgment against those that may look like they are falling for apostasy. Goes to the extend to tell that it would be hurtful to your own spirituallity, if you begin to question the faithfullnes of your brother or sister.
- Paragraph 16 reminds us that we should mind our own business.
- But the most shocking (at least to me), is the picture on page 9. Here you can see Timothy arguing with an "apostate" over scripture... in front of the congregation. That would never happen today. Not only they will change subjects rather than engaging in debate, but they would never do this in front of the cong. Was this a mistake from the writing department?
Now, what is there to gain from such change? Would this not truly endanger their grip on people? Not if planned properly. Not if you demonize apostates enough before you let them roam free in the cong. Besides, what better way of reinforcement, at the dawn of the 100 year of the kingdom, than to have the "let the weed and the wheat grow together" prophecy be fullfilled in front of their very own eyes? I would feel safe to say that none of the current members have ever witnessed a prophecy being fulfilled. They've heard stories of Russell announcing the "end of the gentile times" but no one has lived thru such events. Everything they've got is second hand accounts.
In the long term, becoming a more mainstream religion could end up having a more disastrous effect on people than the current policies have. At the times when information spreads like wildfire and they realize the outreach and the effects that the inernet has on people, letting the grip go for a while may not be as bad as one may think. At the time when most JWs (who were confronted with TTATT) are "waiting on Jehovah" to clarify the doutbts they won't admit to, having new light that would ridicule an apostate, would just prime them for more unquestioned obidience. If you think is hard to wake someone up now, wait for that day when they could tell you "I remember the last time you brought this up and Jehovah made a fool of you".
I welcome anyone to please comment and correct me. Feedback and criticism is exactly what I am looking for. I will proudly stand corrected. But if indeed my statement is somewhat correct, I believe that nothing short of an all out revolution will ever stop this org from further inflicting damage on the lives of its followers.
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JW TV - One Further Step Towards Making the Organization Soft & Cuddly
by steve2 inone of the more astonishing developments within the organization in recent years is the muting of the more "out there" behaviors of this once fiercely confrontational and proud end-times religious group.. members were unapologetically no part of the world and couldn't give a rat's ar*e what you thought of them.
whereas the organisation fostered an outlook of warning the "wicked" world of the imminence of its destruction at the hands of the almighty - and spared no effort in doing so - nowadays the organization is sucking in its more "loose cannon" elements.
in the place of these elements is a sparkling, smiling, airbrushed group of worshippers who parade their wholesome settled lifestyle to win converts.
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StarTrekAngel
I agree with Steve about how they are repainting their message of doom. I can't believe that is so evident and no one notices. I don't think Noah went around preaching love and positiveness when he would rather be the weatherman.
Funny story related to this.. I attended the spanish international convention in Houston this year. Two talks back to back, summarizing off course, went like this..
Talk one .... the end is so near we can touch it... quote "What about the increasing number of fatal deseases and earthquakes? The WHO said that this past decade alone, more than 100 new deseases were discovered" end of quote
Talk two, right after talk one ... Lets make our message in field service more positive.. quote "There is no need to sound negative, telling people about the increasing earthquakes or the hundreds of new deseases. We are there to tell people about our faith, not scare them.." end of quote
Almost sounds like the second speaker came to correct the first one. This is no joke, those words were spoken literally.
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JWs and Exclusivity
by Don Schneider injesus, mark 9-40 (nwt).
the jehovahs witnesses assert exclusivity.
that is, they are the only true christian faith.
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StarTrekAngel
Some of us were not born in and I still wonder how did I let them catch me. I also know of other very broad-minded people that fell for it. The problem with broad-minded people and those who seem "too smart to fall for this" is that we do not consider ourselves to be above anyone else. We understand that there is always something we don't know and we are willing to entertain the possibillity. In this case the problem was that we were presented with "the truth" before we knew "the truth about the truth". It was just a matter of timing.
Have you ever read the story "The last answer"? I recommend it. Two things are evident there. How a scientist can continue to question his intelligence, despite having numerous achievements and how the concept of "a God" can become something no scientifical theory can prove or disprove.
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31
JWs and Exclusivity
by Don Schneider injesus, mark 9-40 (nwt).
the jehovahs witnesses assert exclusivity.
that is, they are the only true christian faith.
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StarTrekAngel
Yeap! It would be unthinkable in any case, that Jesus would make such short lived statements. When many Christian denominations limit themselves to abide the new testament only, then we could just go ahead as JWs by simply referring to the letters section of the bible. Not far from what we do today.
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31
JWs and Exclusivity
by Don Schneider injesus, mark 9-40 (nwt).
the jehovahs witnesses assert exclusivity.
that is, they are the only true christian faith.
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StarTrekAngel
Spot on Blues! I don't remember having studied this book but we have others. This does not contradict my point. While they may have an actual explanation for everything, some of these subject are rather avoided and seldomly studied. None of these get the same attention as the issues with apostasy, donations, field service, etc ,etc. So people tend to forget and they rather have it this way.