Posts by willyloman

26

Standing your ground feellllllls GREAT

by SheilaM in

as most of you know i am a student.

well, thunder and i decided some extra income would be great so i decided to go back to my old (90's) temp agency.

thunder swung by the office to pick up an application for me.

willyloman

Trying to the harm to two persons that you do not know for having biblical literature on their own desk is NOT cool.

Neither is intimidating and frightening people by waving this crap in their face, sword. As usual, dubs want it both ways: claiming to boldly witness and disdain fear of man, they are first to squeal when people fight back against this kind of aggressive behavior. The poster who dropped a dime on them for what may be a violation of company policy is to be commended for insisting that HER rights and freedom from harm be protected. You probably didn't think of it from that angle.

36

Guess What? I Got ANOTHER Visit From An Elder Today

by minimus in

jw
friends

today, an elder stopped by my work just to say hello and invite me to the memorial!

he asked me if the presiding overseer had called me yet because he and another elder were going to give me a call at home to set up a visit.

he said they (the elders) decided this on their elder's meeting last night.......so what do you think is going to happen when i tell them i'm not going to allow them to make a "shepherding" call???

willyloman

I'm in the same boat!

After an elder dropped by my place of work (I was out of the office) and left me a short note in a sealed envelope (nothing serious, just Hi, How ya doin', Miss ya), I got message left on my machine that I didn't feel I should ignore. So I called back, continued to play the "sick card" that has worked really well so far (no meetings in over three months, no phone calls for two whole months).

I did my best to stay under the radar and not say anything that would send up flags. The elder said, "We really need to get over there and visit you guys so we can encourage you." Having played the sick card already, I simply responded that it would be good to call in advance to make sure we "were up to having a visit." He assured me that they'd call in advance and said he hoped we'd start feeling better soon.

At one point, he expressed concern that we were missing meetings and service and that this was probably " a real source of discouragement to you." I wanted to say, no, actually, it's been terrific, but I didn't. I stretched the truth a bit and said, "Well, we know a lot of people in several congregations here and people have been really good about taking care of us." The truth is, we've had maybe 2 calls in three months from publishers expressing concern over our absence. But I didn't want him to think we were in need of "emergency assistance." His response? "That's great, that's what friends are for, right?"

Our next move? We plan to screen all calls, as usual, and ignore the first message left on our machine. If there are multiple messages, I'll call back a day later and say, "Thanks for you call. We really aren't feeling like having company right now, but I'll call you when it's a good time." Of course, I won't call.

My hope is that by putting them off a few times, we'll fall off the radar again. So, that's my plan. This is sure stressful, though! Meanwhile, we're working on getting the whole family out. That's going much better than I would have thought. Once they're all "rescued," I can be more forthright.

20

We're speaking to folks in your neighborhood

by new light in

willyloman

Reminds me of time a CO visited our congo and spent each morning detailing his "very effective" way to overcome objections. He said two most common householder reactions were: 'Not interested' and 'I'm busy.' He said there was one response that would work for both.He'd outline a typical scene at the door:

I'm not interested/busy.

Is that because you have your own religion?

Yes.

What religion are you?

Catholic.

Do you go to church around here?

Yeah, right over here in ....

By now a "conversation" is under way; just go on with your original presentation.

He was one of those warm, fuzzy guys and made this all seem ridiculously simple and feasible.

I was asked to work with him one morning. When we went to the first door, I said I wanted to use his presentation. I did, and then he used it. It went like this for an hour or so. A lot of people were home that day, and we tried it out on a dozen people.

Not one took the bait. We never got past the "Is that because you have your own religion?" They just closed the door on our transparent attempt to engage them in a discussion.

Next morning, he was telling the group all about his favorite approach to overcome objections. "This always works," he said. I tried not to look at him.

24

ALL JWs Are To Be Evangelizers---Per The New Watchtower

by minimus in

jw
friends

i visited my mother yesterday and asked her if she had the latest magazines.

i believe the march 15th's lead study article is the ne that states that all jws are supposed to be evangelizers.

before my mother and i discussed the article, i asked her if all jws were supposed to be evangelizers.

willyloman

A new wrinkle was added seven or eight years ago, about the time people started carrying cell phones with them. An elder I knew would "lead" the group out into the field and then, as the door work began, his cell phone would go off. He'd get a concerned look on his face, walk a few steps away from the group, and speak into the phone in hushed tones. Then he'd walk over and ask one of the MS's to "take over for me." There was some congregation problem or publisher emergency that required his immediate attention and he had to leave. He worked this one at least once a month, and more often if he forgot you were part of his group last weekend. Of course, no one could ask for details; confidentiality, you know.

33

Are you more intelligent since you left?

by Nosferatu in

jw
friends

ever since leaving the jws, i believe i've become much more intelligent.

i now have to learn from my past mistakes rather than viewing my mistakes as a result of satan's influence.

i now know how to prevent myself from making the same mistakes rather than repeating them due to ignoring the facts.

willyloman

Respectfully disagree with the order. First, you get intelligent. Then you leave.

68

What is a Super Jehovah's Witness?

by Valis in

*lol*

willyloman

It's amusing whenever someone comes on board here and positions himself as the super dub, loins girded to do battle with the evil apostates. Before long he's revealed to be immature and carrying a big ego, some sort of pseudo-intellectual, rife with tall stories about how good things are back in the organization.

Super JW thinks he is dealing people who are on his level. In some cases, he is. But many of those who read and post here have JW "credentials" that seriously outweigh whatever experience he brings to the table. And we recognize hyperbole when we see it. He claims that JW's are becoming increasingly aware of apostate tactics and better equipped to refute them. The average witness is clueless about apostate tactics and furthermore, couldn't care less. All that matters to most dubs is the social aspect of membership. If their family and friends left tomorrow, they'd be gone, too.

As for this hidden cadre of super-dubs hidden inside the organization, I can assure you that no such SWAT team exists. This is from the vantage point of one whose job for 25 years was to "positively know the appearance of the flock." The only witnesses who get bumped to "super" status are those who buy into the party line and support it regardless of the personal cost. The "smart" ones take a hike just as soon as their eyes open and their family circumstances permit.

31

Comments You Will Not Hear At the 2-29-04 WT Study

by blondie in

comments you will not hear at the 2-29-04 wt study

review comments will be in black and parentheses ().

wt quotes will be in red and quotes "".

willyloman

It should be abundantly clear that JWs are Neo-Judaizers masquerading as Christians.

This point cannot be emphasized too much. Excellent posts in this thread, which help to explain why so many non-JW's believe that Witnesses aren't Christians. The confusion is the natural by product of JW teachings. This thought was a real eye opener for me.

We were taught that people who said "you don't believe in Jesus" were simply brainwashed by Satan and Christendom and our job was to straighten them out by pointing out we were "the only people doing what Jesus commanded" by going door to door. In fact, there's no biblical evidence Jesus commanded any such thing, nor did he say this would be an identifying mark. There are a number of things he did command his followers to do but and serious and sustained discussion of these topics is largely missing from the scheduled meeting agenda at the KH.

51

"The Four Presidents of the Watchtower Society"

by RR in

jw
friends

this is the new book edited by edmund gruss.

i just finished reading it and must say a one word description would be "disturbing".

the book focuses of course on the characters and motivations of the first four presidents of the watchtower society.

willyloman

Those arguing that the WTS can't be a "business" because there is no one benefiting gets any money are overlooking a basic human condition.

People will work for money, or they will work for power and prestige. If they are incredibly lucky, they get both, but there are lots of folks who work for what the economists who study these things refer to as a "psychological wage" or PW. An example of PW is a government bureaucrat who makes a mid-five figure income but who gets 4 or 5 weeks of vacation, a dozen sick days, half a dozen "personal days" and is paid for 12 to 18 "holidays" a year, and is perhaps even on a non traditional work schedule that provides Fridays off. After 20 or 30 years of this (with virtually no fear of every being fired or laid off), they get a pension equal to half or all of their salary for as long as they live. In exchange for all this, these people show up at 8:00 on the nose and are heading for the elevator at 4:59 each day.

Their neighbor makes less money, works more hours, gets little sick pay, no more than 2 weeks vacation a year, and maybe five or sick paid holidays. They are expected to stay until the work is done, often take work home with them or come in on weekends to stay abreast of the enormous work load. They are working this hard because layoffs have forced them to do the work of two or three others in order to keep their jobs. They have no job security and can be laid off or fired on a whim, and many of them will be.

Contrast this with those who live and work at Bethyl in some position of authority. All their needs are cared for and they are given power and prestige far beyond their level of education or training. If they toe the party line, they have jobs for life. They travel and live better than the vast majority of publishers who pay their way. They are accorded almost god-like respect when they show up at a company function; people stand in line to give them money and accord them hospitality. They will do whatever is necessary to protect cash flow and position.

This is their PW; a psychological wage worth more than money.

19

Did The Witnesses Ever Say Weird Things In The 70's Door To Door?

by shamus in

i recall my parents saying that they would go around and say that "nuclear bombs" were, at one point, imminent, and what you would do if you died today?

i'm not sure if that's the exact wording, but just wondering if they really said weird things like that; like there were fighter jets in the sky with nuclear capabilities that nearly caused "armageddon".

true or false?

willyloman

"Good morning! It's already August 1975 and the end is coming in 33 days, nine hours and four minutes. If you don't start studying with me in this little blue book RIGHT NOW, you and almost the entire population of this planet will be bird food in a month."

Other than that, Shamus, no, nothing weird was going on in the 70's.

51

"The Four Presidents of the Watchtower Society"

by RR in

jw
friends

this is the new book edited by edmund gruss.

i just finished reading it and must say a one word description would be "disturbing".

the book focuses of course on the characters and motivations of the first four presidents of the watchtower society.

willyloman

...what about this is NOT about book distribution and advancement of the interests of the publishing corporation? GaryB

Very compelling argument, Gary. One can't read what you wrote and find room for argument. I'm smacking my forehead, wondering how I missed this for 30 years.