Posts by accuracy

25

I'm pulling out the gun .... I SWEAR!

by BobsGirl in

jw
friends

holy crap!!!

if i hear one more ...... "pedophilia exists everywhere" excuse from a d*** jw troll ... i am going to start shooting i swear!!.

the simple fact of the matter is that they claim to be gods earthly organization.

accuracy

Well, if you don't want to hear the truth you might as well start shooting, because pedophilia does exist everywhere.

Not wanting to hear the truth enrages many people. Some stop up their ears. Some shoot the messenger. Some grit their teeth. Some fight and persecute. None of this changes the facts of the matter.

I don't know what the WT has or has not done about this issue. All I have is anecdotal evidence from opposers and the WT's own statements. At this point, I have no more reason to believe one over the other.

But what I do see here is a lot of generalization, unproven "statistics," shameless stereotyping, and the painting of an entire organization as evil because of the acts of a few that are in violation of the organizations teachings.

As for the expectation that "God's organization" should be perfect, when was it ever so? Every human entity that God has ever used has been as imperfect as the people in it, including the ancient nation of Israel and the early Christian assemblies. Read the epistles and the book of Revelation's message to the churches. They all had to deal with serious moral problems.

So, condemn those individuals whose deeds make them worthy of condemnation. But to condemn the innocent makes you no better than the people you complain against.

"Shooting" those who disagree with you -- isn't that the same thing you condemn in the Watchtower organization?

7

Christianity and Enforced Unity

by Gozz in

frequently, jws will argue that the unity of the congregation is inviolable.

that has been the case in the ongoing child molestation cases, where a number of those involved have been expelled based ont he allegation of "sowing discord".

my correspondences with jws on several levels have shown that this is the current, and most attractive explanation to justify the expulsion/disfellowshipping of those championing the child molestation cases.

accuracy

Perhaps you need to explain it better, but I do not see where Uriah is relevant here. What David did was itself in violation of God's law.

And has anyone in the pedophile cases actually been disfellowshiped for causing "disunity"? In other words, are the issues before the judicial committes based solely or at all on their speaking out against pedophilia?

20

Bowen Disfellowshipping/Daramsala Salt Works

by Francois in

jw
friends

bill bowen's disfellowshipping is very likely to have the same effect as the attack, by british and conscripted indian forces, on gandhi's followers who attempted to close the daramsala salt works.

this event marked the end of the british raj in india - even though the brits stayed in nominal power a couple more years.

the unprincipled and immoral attack upon unarmed demonstrators showed the world the utter lack of ethics and morals of the the british lording it over someone else in their own home.. likewise, the jw attacks, disfellowshipping of people who attempt to protect the most defenseless, the most helpless, the most innocent members of our society, is a carbon-copy of the arrogance of the british raj in india - and at the salt works that fateful day.. these disfellowshippings will demonstrate to the world the complete moral degeneracy of the watchtower bible and tract society.

accuracy

I do not see it as having that effect.

It is likely that the actual number of JW members involved in pedophilia, as opposed to the speculated and possibly inflated estimates bandied about rather freely here, are small. You could find the same numbers in any grouping of people, anywhere. Pedophilia is a worldwide societal problem that cuts across all lines. It cannot be used to tarnish one group any more than another.

Anyone you work with, live among, associate with, or be on the internet with, could be a pedophile. Or not.

123

The Protect the Children Sham

by HildaBingen in

once upon a time there was an evil antagonist of god named ha satan.

this evildoer thought of many ways to make worldlings oppose god's covenant people.

he finally got a bright idea.

accuracy

That's the "Rear of the Year"? Give me a break! J-Lo wins, hands down, any day!

But Hilda has a point. From much of what I have read here, the JW-pedophile issue is agenda-driven and the agenda has little to do with the abused children.

In fact the agenda constitutes just another abuse of the children, by misusing their true suffering and pain to "get" the WTS.

25

Real god name: Jehovah, Yahweh??

by Yaron777 in

i just today found this forum and read these discussion in here, some good stuff found, thanks.

reason why i'm here is, because one of my friend is jehovah witness, and we have discussed many things.

i myself don't know very much about bible.

accuracy

TheOldHippie is correct that some modern research tends toward a 3-syllable pronunciation for YHWH. The article written by George Wesley Buchanan, Professor Emeritus, Wesley Theological Seminary, in Biblical Archaeology Review, April 1995, comes to mind.

Many scholarly works also admit, as does the prestigious Anchor Bible Dictionary, that the pronunciation "Yahweh" is just a supposition, not a fact.

It is not true, as some suggest, that the Hebrew letters YHWH can be pronounced just any old way. Ancient Hebrew, like Modern Israeli Hebrew, was written without vowels, but certain combinations of letters had a standard way of being pronounced and understood. And for those who would deny that Modern Israeli Hebrew is NOT written without vowels, I suggest that you pull up the website of the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz ( http://www.haaretz.co.il), which is printed in unvowelled Hebrew, which is easily read and understood by modern Jews.

The point is that when Hebrew was and is a living language, vowels are not needed to get at the correct pronunciation of words.

The medieval Hebrew scholar Maimonides in his Moreh Nevukim, or "Guide to the Perplexed," stated that anciently, the Divine Name was pronounced "as it was spelled." No vowels were necessary, since the letters H and W, as medial (not final) letters, would serve as "vowels" and would have to be pronounced in a certain way.

With that bit of wisdom, we come to a 3-syllable pronunciation for YHWH.

It is strange that those who would pronounce or interpret "Jesus" as coming from "Yehoshua" from the first part of the Divine Name, i.e., the YH-, have problems with Yehowah. If you accept "Yehoshua," then "Yehowah" is from the exact same pattern.

Also, the name "Jehovah" has nothing to do with "hovah" ("destruction"), since the two terms come from two completely different Hebrew roots. Those who make such a connection are arguing from an ignorance of the Hebrew language. The name "Jehovah" (Yehowah) is from "Hayah" (more anciently, "Hawah"), meaning "to be; to exist." The Hebrew Bible itself makes this connection at Exodus 3:14, 15.

It is further incorrect to say that the Name does not appear in New Testament, since Revelation 19 has Yah, the short form of YHWH, in the expression "Hallelu-Yah!"

12

Hildabingen and Her Thought Stuff

by Amazing in

jw
friends

hello hilda: in your thread below about "thought exeperiments and bill bowen, you state the following: "i once had a friend who had racial epithets hurled at her by a white man.

he was not the only one who showed himself to be a racist.

she also went to get a job at a huge prominent corporation in a prosperous country and she did not get the job because she was a certain color.

accuracy

What is about to take place with the Watchtower Society and Jehovah's Witnesses is a serious step to expose the issue, and either lead to reform within the religion to act to protect its most vulnerable - its children - or if not, to lead to the financial ruin of its publishing empire.

And which one is it that you really, really want?

To my way of thinking, while it is true that the pedophile issue must be resolved to the benefit of the victims, it appears that some merely see this as another thing to latch onto in an attempt to 'financially ruin' the WTS. Is it hatred of the WTS, or love of the children that motivates them? If merely or primarily the former, where is the moral high ground?

12

You gotta be kidding!

by RR in

jw
friends

just checked out the watchtower.org site.

guess what the main article is?

yep child molestation.

accuracy

Fair enough, Fred. And the article is nearly 9 years old, so it does not seem that the WTS has just started to speak out against pedophilia. The problem, though, is that the WTS needs to better confront and root out this pernicious infestation among their own members.

29

The Mystical View of Races

by HildaBingen in

jw
friends

"there is neither jew nor greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one person in christ jesus".

galatians 3:28

accuracy

I do not think that people should judge a mystic on the basis of her religion. I stand for God, Christ, truth and justice. I believe in what is fair for everyone concerned. Pedophilia is wrong. But no one should invent stories about any religion just to make that organization look bad in the eyes of others.

Salutem punctus triangulii! Greetings from one mystic to another. Attempting to "change metals to gold," as it were.

Your citation of Joel 3:3 was interesting. I do not think I have ever seen that verse applied to pedophilia, but it does fit. Surely God and any right-thinking people condemn the exploitation of children, whatever the form it takes.

Apart from the pedophilia, a problem that affects humanity irrespective of religion or the lack of religion, the WTS suffers from the lack of welcoming a loyal opposition. Instead, all opposition or criticism is viewed as disloyalty and something to be contained or eradicated. I think such a policy has backfired, with ominous results.

For the religiously inclined, only God is right all the time. Others should be willing to accept criticism and correction, without viewing it as disloyalty.

18

"Organized Religion" by Russell.

by refiners fire in

if this information has already been posted previously, i apologize.. thy kingdom come by russell.

pages 140 - 190.. selected quotes follow.some of them heavily edited for brevity.. page 141:.

..." the test of worthiness for kingdom honours will be an individual one...not a trial of sects,to see which of them is the true one... they combine the idea of individual responsibility with sectarian bondage.

accuracy

The pundits say that a government is merely a "cooled-down" revolution. Perhaps a mainstream religion is merely a "cooled-down" sect.

It seems that Russell was at least prophetic about something. His legacy has come to resemble the very thing that he wished to reform.

4

Any Greg Stafford Updates?

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

since the release of greg's book is now a few months back does anyone know of his current situation within the organization?.

can anyone provide any juicy quotes found within his new book three dissertations and does he retract any of his statements on his jw's defended books?

accuracy

Judging by some initial reaction, Greg's book has the potential to be devastating. Written by a respected Witness, who has gained a reputation as a meticulous researcher and defender of the Society, the book questions the faithfulness to the Bible of the "faithful slave."

In effect it says: 'You have encouraged us to read the Bible. We have read it and discovered that some of our teachings are NOT Bible-based. But the organization refuses to change those teachings. So, what shall we do now?'

How the Society handles this issue may impact seriously upon not just Greg's future, but its own.