Posts by shadow

65

Here is the funeral talk outline. VERY discraceful.

by stillstuckcruz in

this is truly terrible.

i just love the statement "instead of eulogizing the deceased, use the material in this outline to give a fine witness concerning the truth.

" in other words, utterly disregard the deceased.

shadow

Not in KH but Ianelli from Bethel spoke at it so eulogies, salutes, etc. were ok in this case

65

Here is the funeral talk outline. VERY discraceful.

by stillstuckcruz in

this is truly terrible.

i just love the statement "instead of eulogizing the deceased, use the material in this outline to give a fine witness concerning the truth.

" in other words, utterly disregard the deceased.

shadow

Sometimes it's ok to not follow the script . . .

________________________________________________________________________________

Rookie fireman mourned

By Susan Jacobson | Sentinel Staff Writer

Posted August 6, 2002

PHOTOS

Mementos. (ED SACKETT/ORLANDO SENTINEL)

Aug 6, 2002

A spray of red carnations, his firefighters’ hat and photos of Dallas Begg and his family adorn his casket Monday.

(ED SACKETT/ORLANDO SENTINEL)

casket

Somber farewell. (ED SACKETT/ORLANDO SENTINEL)

Aug 6, 2002

Pallbearers from Dallas Begg’s training class Monday carry his casket past saluting comrades, with his family following, as they proceed to his funeral. About 2,700 people paid respects to the Osceola County firefighter.

(ED SACKETT/ORLANDO SENTINEL)

farewell

Procession. (ED SACKETT/ORLANDO SENTINEL)

Aug 6, 2002

Ladder trucks use black bunting Monday to create an arch as the firetruck carrying the remains of Dallas Begg passes on the way to Osceola Memory Gardens, where the firefighter was buried.

(ED SACKETT/ORLANDO SENTINEL)

procession

Dallas Begg.

Jul 31, 2002

KISSIMMEE -- About 2,700 friends, family and fellow firefighters bid farewell Monday to Osceola County rookie Dallas Begg, who died in a training accident last week along with fire Lt. John Mickel.

David Iannelli, a volunteer with the world headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses in New York City, eulogized Begg as someone who made a good name for himself with people and with God.

Two of the things he wanted most were to become a firefighter and win the hand of his sweetheart, Rachel, whom he married in March.

"He was very focused and determined and goal-oriented," Iannelli said. "When he set his mind to something, it generally got done."

Osceola fire Lt. Tracy Stubbs read a letter from Begg's widow, thanking firefighters and the community for their support and expressing a sad camaraderie with Carlotta Mickel, the lieutenant's widow.

The letter also recalled Begg's sense of humor and imagined how pleased and surprised he would have been to see how many people came to say goodbye to him.

"He would say, 'Yeah, I'm the man,' " Stubbs read as some people laughed and others sobbed quietly.

So many people wanted to pay their respects that the 2,100-seat auditorium overflowed and about 600 people listened in another room via loudspeakers.

Mickel's parents and widow attended the service at the former Tupperware auditorium. Mickel's funeral Saturday also drew a huge crowd.

Begg, who would have turned 21 next month, started work July 22 and died eight days later. He and Mickel were the first firefighters to enter an abandoned building where a fire had been lighted to teach search-and-rescue techniques.

Begg's instructor at Central Florida Fire Academy mourned his first student to die in the line of duty.

"We lost a bright, shining star when we lost Dallas," Lawrence MacPhee said. "He had what it took to do the job: heart, desire and the love of being a firefighter."

Flowers and pictures of Begg and his family surrounded his casket, which was draped with a spray of red carnations. On each side was a shadow box containing a shirt from his uniform, drumsticks -- he played in a band -- and other mementos.

Harold Schaitberger, general president of the International Association of Fire Fighters, and Dominick Lanza, president of the Osceola County Professional Firefighters Local 3284, hugged Rachel Begg and presented her with the IAFF's gold medal of honor.

After the service, pallbearers from Begg's training class hoisted the blue casket to their shoulders and slowly left the auditorium. On the way, they paused before Rachel Begg and Osceola fire Chief Don Adams, who escorted her.

Orange County firefighter Eric DePoto trailed the procession holding Begg's yellow firefighter's hat, which was placed on the front seat of Engine 93 on the way to the cemetery.

Bagpipes played, and firefighters from across Florida saluted as the casket was lifted into the back of the engine, which had a black wreath on the front and black swaths of cloth on the sides.

Begg was buried at Osceola Memory Gardens.

Susan Jacobson can be reached at [email protected] or 407-931-5946.

*** g99 2/8 11 Should the Dead Be Honored? *** ABalancedView

Showing honor and respect for dead ones is not always linked to false religious teachings. For instance, a Bible account relates how faithful King Hezekiah was honored after death. God’s people “buried him in the ascent to the burial places of the sons of David; and honor was what all Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem rendered to him at his death.” (2 Chronicles 32:33) Another example is that of Jesus. The Bible says that his disciples “took the body of Jesus and bound it up with bandages with the spices, just the way the Jews have the custom of preparing for burial.”—John 19:40.

The Scriptures contain many other cases in which special procedures were followed relative to the body and the burial of dead ones. These practices were not ancestor worship, nor were they based on the mistaken belief that the dead continue to influence the affairs of the living. Rather, the mourners manifested deep respect for those they loved. The Bible does not object to such respect, as it is based on natural human emotions, although the Bible does not endorse lavish or hysterical displays at funerals. On the other hand, it does not encourage Christians to be stoic and impassive when faced with the death of a loved one.

Hence, when they attend the funeral or the burial of their loved ones, Jehovah’s Witnesses render proper respect and honor to the dead. (Ecclesiastes 7:2) When it comes to the matter of flowers, funeral services, and other local customs, Christians make careful personal choices in order to avoid practices that clash with Bible teachings. In this, good judgment and balance are needed. The EncyclopædiaofReligionandEthics explains that “a rite changes its significance and value from time to time, so that the meaning attached to it in later times may be quite different from that which it had originally, and the popular explanation of it may throw no light on its origin.”

Is ItWrongtoEulogize?

The principle of being balanced applies also to the matter of eulogizing the dead. At funeral services, Jehovah’s Witnesses strive to comfort the bereaved. (2 Corinthians 1:3-5) A formal program may include one or more speakers. But it would be inappropriate to convert the occasion into a long parade of eulogizers extolling the deceased. Rather, the funeral affords an opportunity to extol God’s marvelous qualities, including his kindness in providing us with the hope of the resurrection.

This does not mean, however, that it would be wrong to remember the good qualities of the deceased during a funeral discourse. (Compare 2 Samuel 1:17-27.) When the dead one has been faithful to God until death, he or she becomes an excellent example to be imitated. (Hebrews 6:12) It is good to ponder over the integrity-keeping course of God’s servants. Sharing these positive thoughts with others during a funeral service provides comfort to the living and honors the memory of the dead.

True Christians do not worship the dead. They do not engage in popular rites that conflict with Bible truths. On the other hand, God’s servants reject the extreme view that because the dead are merely dust, all funeral customs are purposeless and unnecessary. They mourn and remember their dead. But their pain and sorrow is tempered with the Bible truths that the dead do not suffer and that there is the hope of a resurrection.

42

I am new here and need help...or just a listening ear

by Fallingaway in

my husband and i have two small children, one of which recently became an unbaptised publisher and joined the school.

my husband is an elder and firmly committed to our family and loves me deeply as i love him.

i would like to find a way for all of us to fade away as we have family in the organization that we do not want to lose.

shadow

I have a different perspective.

Most JW's have an unrealistic concept of the "truth", the GB, elders, Bethel, etc. and why wouldn't they? This is the picture painted by the org.

But when we start to see the flaws it dashes the picture we have built up in our minds. I have no doubt that many things are wrong, some of which are very serious. I've read this board for many years and observed many families break up over this. Many others lose faith in God and the Bible leaving them without any hope for the future except rotting in the ground. Others run back to Christendom and happily celebrate all the holidays ASAP.

Sometimes I can hardly contain my revulsion at some of the things being taught and also find it very hard to go in field service. I no longer serve as an elder but still comment selectively. I don't want to break up my family nor lose the faith that remains in me. I also look to the Bible and see that I was stupid to have such high expectations of other humans. True enough that they want us to have that picture but it is a standard that is impossible to achieve. All thru the Bible we read of how bad humans are when they turn into leaders. WT leadership is no exception. So I stay a JW even though I disagree with a number of things and have had my perception of the organization adjusted to be more realistic.

Feel free to PM me if you wish. I refrain from getting into long arguments on here anymore.

45

Are Jehovah's Witnesses a hierarchical religion? And does it matter?

by cedars in

this is the title of my latest article, which is available on the link below.... http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/are-jehovahs-witnesses-a-hierarchical-religion-and-does-it-matter.

inspired by the illustration in the april 15th watchtower (above), i thought it would be worthwhile to further explore this facet of the society for two reasons.... because the society has spent decades criticizing the catholic church for being hierarchical, andbecause the society has recently become more open about its hierarchical nature than ever before.below is a diagram i have prepared which shows the organizational similarities that watch tower society now shares with the catholic church.... .

until recently, the governing body could place the "faithful slave" above it at the top of the pyramid, but as of october 5th this fuzzy doctrine was scrapped - thus removing the final distinguishing factor between the governing body and popedom.. as always, i would be interested in your thoughts.... .

shadow

Cedars,

I know how you value my opinion so here it is, overall pretty good, however:

I think your chair obsession is a bit of a distraction from the point.

GB are recognizable because it probably was a picture of them so why wouldn't it look like them?

Jesus isn't in the picture because it is obviously the chariot in Ezekiel and Jesus wasn't in that vision.

Otherwise a valid argument and the similarities between JWs and Catholics are rather disturbing.

The scan of the court document is excellent.

Shadow - part of the JW loyal opposition

22

So, No Evidence For Solomon... How About The Other OT Superstars?

by Room 215 in

so, as we've seen, there is no independent, epigraphical extra-biblical evidence from archeology for solomon; then what about joshua, samuel, joseph, samson, etc., etc.

?.

shadow

http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/cline35709.shtml

I have no evidence that my great great great grandfather lived. I wonder if that means I don't exist?

37

2012 report analysis - growth of JWs according to local internet availability

by cedars in

jw
friends

hi everyone.

i did a similar chart to the one below last year, but this year i thought i'd make it slightly more meaningful by giving the statistics across three years rather than just one.. hopefully it's fairly self explanatory.. i'm making the data i've used available in a separate pdf download for those who are interested.. .

cedars.

shadow

well at least a few people understood the point I'm making

as for those who don't get it, maybe you should take advantage of further educational opportunities

I think I'll take a pass on making graphs that don't really prove anything

37

2012 report analysis - growth of JWs according to local internet availability

by cedars in

jw
friends

hi everyone.

i did a similar chart to the one below last year, but this year i thought i'd make it slightly more meaningful by giving the statistics across three years rather than just one.. hopefully it's fairly self explanatory.. i'm making the data i've used available in a separate pdf download for those who are interested.. .

cedars.

shadow

not an apologist, just looking for truth instead of crap from either side

"For What It's Worth"

There's something happening here
But what it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware

I think it's time we stop
Children, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking' their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind

It's time we stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

What a field day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly saying, "hooray for our side"

It's time we stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the men come and take you away

We better stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

We better stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

We better stop
Now, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

We better stop
Children, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?

25

JW's Sandy Respond Show off

by pixel in

this just post on their website:.

.

http://www.jw.org/en/news/by-region/americas/united-states/video-clip-hurricane-sandy-relief/.

shadow

mormons movie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHSkiEeLpTk

37

2012 report analysis - growth of JWs according to local internet availability

by cedars in

jw
friends

hi everyone.

i did a similar chart to the one below last year, but this year i thought i'd make it slightly more meaningful by giving the statistics across three years rather than just one.. hopefully it's fairly self explanatory.. i'm making the data i've used available in a separate pdf download for those who are interested.. .

cedars.

shadow

lies, damn lies and statistics!

maybe it's caused by per capita income, maybe using internet for porn, maybe education level

graph is for entertainment only but seems to me that more is implied

37

2012 report analysis - growth of JWs according to local internet availability

by cedars in

jw
friends

hi everyone.

i did a similar chart to the one below last year, but this year i thought i'd make it slightly more meaningful by giving the statistics across three years rather than just one.. hopefully it's fairly self explanatory.. i'm making the data i've used available in a separate pdf download for those who are interested.. .

cedars.

shadow

I took my stats courses over 15 years ago, but still remember enough to know that this doesn't prove anything.

perhaps someone with more recent experience could point out some obvious flaws?