Posts by BruceBaker

11

Anyone live in or near Orlando?

by StinkyPantz in

jw
friends

i'm moving to orlando in about 8 months and i have a few questions.

BruceBaker

I'm not too far from Orlando, I'll hook up

Ven

PS sorry about posting this in dad's name, I'm not used to sharing the postings on this computer hahahhahah.

Edited by - BruceBaker on 9 November 2002 11:50:49

41

Two witness rule IS A MAJOR PROBLEM

by LFitzwater in

it may not be the main problem or the only problem and i do agree that this needs to be treated as a criminal issue, but let me give you a very good example of why it is important for a problem like this to also be taken care of congergationally.. my father in law dan fitzwater sr has now been taken care of criminally.

( no thanks to the wts) he is in prison for child molestation.

he has been abusing children for a very long time, but he is only serving a short time in prison.

BruceBaker

Even though this is my first post, my daughter Venice has shared some of mine and my wife's concerns & thoughts in the last 2 years on the web.

We have fully supported Silentlambs from the very beginning, spending 100's upon 100's of hours behind the scenes on the phone, with the Silentlambs co-founders & others. We were at the Candlelight Vigil, the March on W.T.S., a Court Appearance, TV & newspaper interviews promoting the March & Silentlambs in general. I believe the time, money & energy invested has been worth every penny.

Just as the rest of you feel about your personal investment in the support of victims which Silentlambs represents. I know our families contribution isn't nearly what others have given. esp. the founders of Silentlambs, but the involvement has had a major impact on me for the good as I will soon explain.

(Just think of the cost of the March itself, 10's of thousands in travel, motels, etc. by 125 & supporters and hundreds more who were there in spirit, & would have been if finances and time would have allowed.)

No other movement has even scratched the surface in regard to impact on WTS; Worldwide media coverage is continuing to grow in Australia, S. America, Hong Kong, Canada, Europe & USA.

The 1st 2 min of Dateline exposed the US vs Them attitude of the WTS for example their arrogance in the 'they' will all die at Armageddon teaching. There have been many benefits from this expose, it would be great to see a list.

The Silentlambs cause is mainly about one thing, the victims of molesters & WTS policy, whether it's not reporting or the 2 witness policy, etc. Silentlambs is driven by a lot of heart and soul along with raw dedication. One of the key reasons for me starting to post is the downplaying by some of the 2 witness rule.

I applaud Lori Fitzwater's and AlanF comments on 11/03/02 . Undermining the 2 witness rule in the slightest way is striking at the very heart of the Silentlambs cause. The not reporting is obvious and often the end result organizationally. The above posts here hit at the very foundation of the non reporting problem. I would like to add to their very concise and straightforward posts.

First of all you cannot judicially engage our dear brother unless he admits to it, or 2 or more witnesses come forward in a very credible and convincing fashion. I have never heard of a confession without witness! I have heard a lot about this in my 40+ years as a JW & my 25 years as an elder, even though some on the GB haven't.

One case I was involved in was handled in 24 hours, from start to disfellowshipping. The confessing came ONLY because of multiple witnesses, plain and simple (& a very focused committee)

If we had less then 2 witnesses he no doubt would have walked, being able to move from congregation to congregation all because of why???? The '2 witness rule'. This is paramount, the reporting only comes later in an elders mindset due to training etc. Secondary, on top of this I had 2 police at my door threatening me with a $2,000.00 a day fine each day I did not report. WTS attorney was telling not to report "trust in Jah's org." I said "are you going to pay the fine & court costs, it's easy for you back in NY", fortunately I was off the hook after 2 days because a victims DF'd father made enough of a report. WTS attorney Greg Olds sent me a clever letter a week later.

Another case I was involved in was with a young mother in her 30's retrieving a vivid memory of molestation. The detail and multiple occasions were hideous and cruel. The service dept. gave us the OK to approach the accused. Since we did not have a second witness he could deny it and did! She became very upset and depressed that she brought it out and now not believed, the whole family in turmoil and now she was under scrutiny! A few months later she drove her car into the path of a cement truck, killing herself and 2 small children. You can figure out the rest.

Ohh sure she could have reported the accused but would you have without the support of the cong. and most of your family and more witnesses. The two witness rule was AGAIN the main problem. The service dept. told us to drop it without more witnesses. I will never forget the look on her face when reality sank into this young lady's mind and heart!!! We will never find out if the accused was guilty since the police did not find out, due to the 2 witness rule. He later moved to another congregation.

Feeling the impact of just these 2 cases and talking with many victims the last 2 years makes me sick that I ever was part of the org. not to mention everything else that's evil and perverted about it.

I hereby formally apologize to any and all individuals I sat in judgment of when a member of that org. We had no business judging anyone on morals or anything else!!!!

Being on the Oregon Regional Building Committee for 15 yrs, City Overseer (16 yrs), Assembly Overseer (16 yrs), District Convention Committee (10 yrs), Chairman of the hospital liaison committee, and Presiding Overseer and Regular pioneer for years, is a lot of REFUSE now!!!

I'm embarrassed it took me until I was 50 years old to finally see the light, to wake up, to think outside the box, to really care about people as people, not people as part of an org.

To be choked up and cry inside when you hear Erica Garza's story first hand at a sentencing hearing--listening to Holly Barry's CD 'Rape & Rage', to read how she was tied up by her molester and ravaged for years. To see on Panorama the room in the barn her father took her to be raped & molested year after year. The more involved you become the more emotion swells up inside along with feeling the victims pain.

Lori Fitzwater feels the pain because she knows the victims pain! She is therefore much more of an expert on this then any eloquent poster on any forum or any elder of any position in the org. Bill Bowen has 1000's of hours listening, cataloging & supporting Victims. You expect him not to get passionate, upset, and on occasion lose it. Passion sometimes affects ones better judgment.

He has been eating, sleeping and breathing this for 2 years. How many of us would have had the drive, tenacity, guts and courage to take on a multi-billion dollar Religious Corp.

He has had incredible support from many the board knows nothing about, along with all the involved obvious support from so many of you. I would like to encourage all Silentlambs supporters to maintain full support regardless of human frailty and personal limitations. This is not only the best game in town but the only game in town.

It would be great to hear about the other cases that slipped away do to the 2 witness rule. I know there has to be 100's if not 1000's. There is nothing more powerful than to hear the victim tell us!

Also I believe that Legislatures need to remove the statute of limitations on sex crimes, everywhere!

Bruce Baker