Posts by wasasister

348

God does exist...

by czarofmischief in

jw
friends

earlier a thread emerged, as they do so often, on whether or not god existed.

i stated that he does, unequivocally and without doubt.

i refused to preface the statement with the phrase "i believe".

wasasister

I have many holes in my understanding, but cannot deny that which I have experienced

Beautifully stated. Thank you for your clarity.

If more Christians believed as you do, I might be more inclined to give their world-view credence. However, in my experience, the vast majority behave as Love_Truth or Rick Warren (A Purpose Driven Life). That is, they believe that God only responds to humans who hold a certain set of beliefs.

As a Jehovah's Witness, I was taught that God would only accept worship/prayers from those who used the name "Jehovah", believed in the interpretation of scripture given by a collection of geriatric racists in Brooklyn, attended a Kingdom Hall, and preached the docterines of Jehovah's Witnesses every chance they got. Anyone else was unacceptable.

Rick Warren believes that only people who accept Jesus Christ as the God-Son and Savior are able to have a realtionship with God.

Radical Islamics believe only those who follow the strict teachings of the Koran can find favor with God.

My point in entering this (already thoroughly discussed) issue was simply to put into perspective what Czar purported to be absolute proof of the existence of a personal God, ie: the answer to his prayers. I found his logic to be vastly flawed, especially given the circumstances with which he believes he received help.

The irony is....my world view allows for you and other Christians to practice your faith, as long as it does not restrict my freedom not to. If your belief system makes you a happy and functional person, I'm thrilled for you. Conversely, in the view of fundementalists, such as my previous religion, I am viewed as doomed and without purpose. I find that offensive.

On that note, I leave this discussion. Along with Ros, I view your type of Christianity to be the least offensive. Oh that you were in the majority!

Wasa

348

God does exist...

by czarofmischief in

jw
friends

earlier a thread emerged, as they do so often, on whether or not god existed.

i stated that he does, unequivocally and without doubt.

i refused to preface the statement with the phrase "i believe".

wasasister

Little Toe:

In your opinion, does God hear/answer prayers of those who do NOT have a relationship with Christ?

348

God does exist...

by czarofmischief in

jw
friends

earlier a thread emerged, as they do so often, on whether or not god existed.

i stated that he does, unequivocally and without doubt.

i refused to preface the statement with the phrase "i believe".

wasasister

IMHO, he reads them all, but replies to those of "His" choosing. I highly suspect (theologically speaking) it has more to do with those whom are in an adoptive relationship with "Him".

Well, that's damned nice of him. So, I gather when I was a devout believer, he did not answer my shopping list because I was the wrong flavor of Christian (JW). No doubt, if I had been of a different belief system, I would have been worthy.

However, now that I have no relationship with him, just with the "Universe" (BTW, I kinda like your concept, but it detracts from the personal God I thought we were discussing here), and now that I enjoy the fruits of the spirit (love, joy, peace, etal), strength, intelligence, a decent home and a job with great medical insurance..... Who exactly IS reading my shopping list?

348

God does exist...

by czarofmischief in

jw
friends

earlier a thread emerged, as they do so often, on whether or not god existed.

i stated that he does, unequivocally and without doubt.

i refused to preface the statement with the phrase "i believe".

wasasister

Oh, sorry, Loves_Truth, I forgot to answer your points:

- are you atheist or agnostic? You describe yourself by both labels in your post.

I am probably more accurately an agnostic, since I would not dispute the existence of a Creator, if solid evidence was presented. Right now, I just don't care.

I do believe God answers our prayers, however, I don't ask for anything other than strength, wisdom, understanding, fruits of the spirit, etc.

Isn't that convenient? You only ask for things you know you can supply all by yourself. That way, you are never disappointed. How clever.

348

God does exist...

by czarofmischief in

jw
friends

earlier a thread emerged, as they do so often, on whether or not god existed.

i stated that he does, unequivocally and without doubt.

i refused to preface the statement with the phrase "i believe".

wasasister

LittleToe, Loves_Truth, and others:

Of course, my prayers were not "shopping lists" or requests to God to take away affliction. I merely disproved God by the same standard of evidence as the original post. God answered my prayers, therefore He exists/God didn't answer my equally sincere and worthy prayers, therefore he does not exist.

Quid pro quo.

As a Jehovah's Witness, I was taught not to pray for selfish things, such as medical insurance. What I prayed for was strength, help, endurance, more faith, etc. All the things Good Little Christians are taught to ask the Heavenly Helper for.

And what more could my dying mother have asked from the God she gave her entire life to, other than release from the searing pain? Do you think she was surprised when God did not listen to her? Did she feel it in the end, that he had left her? Is that perhaps what Jesus found out as he died a horrific death...that God had forsaken him?

Maybe the foxhole is where we really find out how alone we are....

And BTW, does anyone think Czar's problems were any more dire than what I described? Does his petition for help carry any more merit than mine, Sixo's, a devout Jew, Muslim??? Which "shopping lists" does God read, anyway?

348

God does exist...

by czarofmischief in

jw
friends

earlier a thread emerged, as they do so often, on whether or not god existed.

i stated that he does, unequivocally and without doubt.

i refused to preface the statement with the phrase "i believe".

wasasister

There is a God. And he is personal. He is in your face. He has a definite personality. He is filled with love, but he tends to withdraw from individuals who are closed. You do not need Moses, Jesus, or Mohammed to talk to him. How can I prove this assertion? Prayer.
It is the response to prayer that clearly defines God as being real to me. Here's some of the logic behind my thinking....

This is the "proof" which began a very interesting thread. The arguments have been lengthy and detailed on both sides. I would at this point, however, disprove the existance of God by the same line of logic and reason given above:

There is no God because my prayers were not answered. No Theist ever believed more than I did during the vast majority of my life. I absolutely knew not only that god existed, but that He dealt personally in my life. I understood His nature and what my place was in his plan.

Thus, when I sincerely prayed for help with the most serious problems in my life, I expected an answer. I acted in harmony with my prayers, working with all my "God-given" gifts. Things got worse. My mother, the most righteous, saintly person I have ever known, died in agony. I asked her to call out to God to help her endure the pain. She looked at me, completely lucid and said, "Jehovah has left me. He will not listen to me."

My husband lost his job and our medical insurance. My daughter immediately became ill with mysterious symptoms, requiring numerous costly tests. Our bills mounted and we came close to filing bankruptcy. But, instead of sticking our creditors with our mistakes, I took two jobs and paid off our debts. (Do you realize how many small business owners can't give raises or benefits to their employees because so many people file for bankruptcy? Does God care about them?)

I continued to respectfully petition God in fervent prayer, year after year. I devoted my life to serving God, as best as I understood Him. No answer came.

Eventually, I stopped asking and started helping myself. I worked long hours, studied, improved my job skills, increased my income, became debt free.

I am now blissfully happy and agnostic. I am at peace with myself, with my fellow man, and with the universe. If there is a personal deity, I think he'd be OK with that. If He expects me to follow a certain dogma on pain of death, then I want nothing to do with Him.

Someone asked earlier if there were any athiests as happy as those who believe in a god. I'm one of them. My life is many times better than it was when I was a devoted follower of an invisible Father. I know that what I do now matters because my life is not a temporary proving ground for the next plane of existance. I don't segregate people into catagories of those who believe like I do, and those who don't. I understand I must work along with my fellow humans to preserve the planet, because God ain't gonna wipe it all out and start over.

In every appreciable way, I'm a better person.

Thus, by my equally valid evidence, God does NOT exist.

Wasa, the happy athiest

33