undercover

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Posts by undercover

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  1

  New Yorker article on ex-Westboro Church member

  by undercover in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  interesting article on a young woman who grew up in the clutches of westboro baptist church, but came to doubt, and eventually left the church.. i think most of us can relate to parts of her doubts, thoughts, and experiences.... http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/11/23/conversion-via-twitter-westboro-baptist-church-megan-phelps-roper.

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  undercover

  Interesting article on a young woman who grew up in the clutches of Westboro Baptist Church, but came to doubt, and eventually left the church.

  I think most of us can relate to parts of her doubts, thoughts, and experiences...

  http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/11/23/conversion-via-twitter-westboro-baptist-church-megan-phelps-roper
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  82

  Intriguing - but Unsubstantiated!

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  according to one source on a western european 'apostate' website, the org's plan is to abandon the name "jehovah's witnesses" in the future, and replace it with "worshippers of jehovah.".

  http://www.bruderinfo-aktuell.de/index.php/fixnews/#comment-4313 .

  the gist of the account appears to be a repeat of rutherford's re-branding and debunking of old predictions made by the previous shower of fakers.

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  undercover

  So the common thread among some of you theorists is that changing their name would be to distance themselves from past failures. But changing from Jehovah's Witnesses to Jehovah's Worshipers doesn't distance them from their first failure upon naming themselves Jehovah's Witnesses way back when... that the name Jehovah was mistranslated and is not the correct name for their Hebrew god. If they really wanted to prove that this is a new starting point, shutting the door on the past, and the erroneous failures, they should change it to Yahweh's Worshippers. But YW.org doesn't roll off the tongue the way JW.org does.

  Actually, until there is some definitive proof, I ain't buyin it...
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  101

  My mom passed away yesterday....

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  thank you all for your sincere encouragement during these last few weeks.

  finally, she is at peace.

  i was with her , holding her hand when she died.

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  undercover

  Hey, min... I'm not around here as much as I used to be, but happened to see your thread just now.

  My sincerest condolences on your loss. Even though we've never met, I have felt a comradeship with you over the years, and remember you speaking of your mother often. I was truly saddened to read the news.

  My best to you and your family

  UC
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  50

  OMG JW Sea Org

  by sherrie11 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i found this picture and i just can't believe it?

  .

  http://www.jw-archive.org/post/130152768378/jw-booth-at-a-book-fair-in-brazil-photo-shared-by#.

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  undercover

  Seeing how this is a booth at a book fair, it's not too far out there - yet. When I've had to attend work events that featured booths, we, as employees, were given company logo'd shirts to wear while working the booth. After our shift was done, back to the jeans and t-shirts or whatever.

  Now, if they start requiring dubs to wear these 'uniforms' while working out in service, whether door-to-door or standing idly by a literature cart, then it gets a bit more cultish, more like Mormons and their black slacks/ties and white shirts. But for now, It's what it has always been - a publishing company using volunteer workers to sell their wares. They're just pushing some company logo wear on them to wear while working isolated events.

  (though it does achieve another goal - robs the booth worker of any individualism. They are a robot arm of the corporation, not a real person. This is true whether it's religion or industrial lubricants. --Bonus points to whoever can name the movie I just ripped that off from)
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  6

  Meandering thoughts of a recent JW funeral experience

  by undercover in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i went to the kh a couple of weeks ago.

  for a funeral.

  i haven't been in a kh, except for funerals, for several years.

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  undercover

  I went to the KH a couple of weeks ago. For a funeral. I haven't been in a KH, except for funerals, for several years. This one caused more trepidation than earlier funerals, because this was a funeral of one of my peer group growing up. There were bound to be a lot of people I've known forever there, and some I was quite close to.

  The last funeral before this one wasn't totally over the top JW propaganda. That speaker did try to spend some actual time covering the life and times of the deceased. But so much for that being a new trend. This one went straight back to the WT playbook. Three, count em, three (and I did, cause it was printed on the handout given out as we came in) paragraphs about the life and times of the deceased. The final 45 minutes was one excruciatingly long propaganda commercial for WT doctrines, and guilt tripping dubs into doing more (because, hey, you could be next and then where would you be if you died and weren't active in WT service)

  Now this person who was dead wasn't the model JW in later years. Kind of a 'fringe' dub. Yet during this talk, the speaker kept going on about how dedicated this guy was, and how he 'supported' his wife and the congregation (gave her a car to drive was about it). Showed up at occasional meetings and networked some business deals. As the speaker gushed and gushed about this guy, I couldn't help but remember that this speaker was the same a-hole elder who dogmatically declared to me that a DFd family member who committed suicide had no chance of resurrection in the New System. And here he stands, carrying on about how great this quasi-dub was. That part of the funeral pissed me off the most.

  Afterwards I got love bombed back to the stone age...i.e. my old JW days. I saw people I havent seen in years, and they all acted like it was old times. Only one self righteous dub tried to 'encourage' me. He hasn't seen me in years, doesn't even live in the state, and he assumed (because of the beard, I reckon, and maybe because I wasn't wearing an off-the-rack cheap polyester suit) that I just had to be 'inactive'. But other than that, everyone was sooo nice and happy to see me. It really was like good ole days (if you can discount the WT part).

  If one wasn't completely positive that WT doctrine is complete dog dookie, it would have gone a long way to spark them back into 'activity'. or at least show up for a few meetings, until the old thumbscrews were applied anyway. But fortunately for me, while I thought it was great to see old friends, I know that it was superficial, and their version of 'true friendship' relies on you being an active robot for the WTS. The weird thing is that I don't dislike many of them, I just don't agree with the belief system anymore. I respect their right to their beliefs (which isn't the same as respecting the beliefs), and if they don't harass me, I won't criticize their beliefs or harass them for being gullible. If we only see each other on rare occasions and it was as pleasant as our impromptu reunion, then I can live with that.
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  17

  Photosynthesis and the problem with the creation story

  by purrpurr in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i just noticed in the bible that on day three, god created the plants and trees on the earth.... day four, god created the sun, moon and stars!

  so that means that the vegetation that is by its very nature dependant upon light to grow and photosynthesise was created a day before the sun that it needs to live!???.

  this gets even more strange when you factor in the jw exhuse that a day to god is like a thousand years.

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  undercover

  JWs resolve this issue by saying that what happened on day 4 isn't the literal creation of the sun moon and stars but only their being made discernible as distinct objects in the sky. Prior to that sunlight was already reaching the earth's surface from day one when God said let light come to be. Only, the sunlight was diffuse, shining through a haze and one could not make out the sun or any other heavenly body as distinct objects in the sky. They basically teach that what happened on day 4 is the clearing of the atmospheric clouds to allow heavenly objects to be distinctly discernible for the first time.

  I've seen that explanation. Unfortunately for them, it's BS. The scriptures don't say anything about haze lifting, or indiscernible objects. It says, Then God said: “Let there be luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to make a division between the day and the night, and they will serve as signs for seasons and for days and years. They will serve as luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth.” And it was so. And God went on to make the two great luminaries, the greater luminary for dominating the day and the lesser luminary for dominating the night, and also the stars. Thus God put them in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth and to dominate by day and by night and to make a division between the light and the darkness. Then God saw that it was good. And there was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

  
  

  The NWT translation (the only translation endorsed by Jehovah, ya know) itself says, God 'went on to MAKE the ...luminaries, and 'put them in the expanse of the heavens...to make a division between the light and the darkness'. Using the WT explanation, there was already a division between light and dark, you just couldn't 'see' the luminary bodies. That's in direct conflict with what the verse said. The scripture is pretty plain - god made em and hung em on the 4th day. (And even that doesn't make sense since it's the 4th 'day' already. What divided the day and night the first three days?)
  
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  17

  Photosynthesis and the problem with the creation story

  by purrpurr in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i just noticed in the bible that on day three, god created the plants and trees on the earth.... day four, god created the sun, moon and stars!

  so that means that the vegetation that is by its very nature dependant upon light to grow and photosynthesise was created a day before the sun that it needs to live!???.

  this gets even more strange when you factor in the jw exhuse that a day to god is like a thousand years.

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  undercover

  This was dealt with by JW's in the 1969 book "Is the Bible really the word of God?" book. In chapter 2 it states that the Genesis account does not include the creation of the sun and planets.

  New publications say this as well. In trying to come to terms that the universe is billions of years old, they like to claim that the sun, stars, and even the planet earth rock were created well before the creative process on earth. This, they claims, means the Bible and science are compatible. However, they always conveniently forget this scripture:

  Exodus 20:11 - For in six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and he began to rest on the seventh day
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  112

  Geoffrey Jackson's Golden Apple watch INVESTIGATED

  by C0ntr013r in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i went through the original footage to get a good look at the watch.. from these pictures we can probably say that it is a apple watch and that it has a golden color.

  the color on the pin is black, and the band is white, grey, silvery or beige.. .

  the pin is in the exact place for it to be a apple watch.. only apple watch edition have the gold color.

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  undercover

  Seriously... y'all are worried about what kind of watch the man wears? Even if it is a solid gold Apple Star Trek communicator tricorder...

  Of all the things this organization can be criticized over, and held to task for, y'all focus on a GB member's watch.

  Nope, ex-JWs aren't bitter... they just have too much time on their hands since they don't have to go door-to-door anymore
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  25

  This too Shall Pass (RC Commission vs WTS)

  by undercover in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  while i'm glad that the practices of the wts are under review and the australian commission is taking them to task, i'm not really expecting huge changes in the long run.

  oh, they may have to agree to some changes in how they report crimes brought to elders' attention, but this excitement over the supposed expose of wt practices shall pass, and jws will soon be canvassing neighborhoods and rolling their carts, looking for converts.

  conventions will go on.

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  undercover

  Actually there is a big difference. Francis Ford Coppola invented the character 'Michael Corleone'. All the other characters in the 'The Godfather' were make-believe as was the story line.
  There is nothing make-believe about Watchtower, the Royal Commission, Geoffrey Jackson and JW's lies,
  So there is a very high likelihood that Geoffrey Jackson, Watchtower and Jehovah's Witnesses as a whole will 'eat crow' before this is past!

  True. The Godfather example is a fictional tale, but one that borrows from actual crime syndicates and how they operate. True Detective is fictional as well. But in these tales of corruption and crime, it is art imitating life. And in life, corruption and organized crime may suffer some defeats, but they continue without letup, and without being stamped out, and with absolutely no remorse.

  The WTS will suffer some PR nightmares, but they will never eat crow in public, I guarandamntee you that. They will feel absolutely no remorse. They may change some rules, in order to placate government agencies, but they'll spin it as direction from Jehovah himself, and the vast majority of JWs will lap it up like a kitten to milk.

  But as long as it slows em down, that's good. The more stuff on the Internet that can be used to show doubting JWs and people considering joining that this is not a benign religion, the better.
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  53

  What is their official explanation for not allowing beards?

  by keyser soze in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i ask because my gf, who knows all about my jw upbringing, convinced me to grow a goatee, just to see how it looks.

  we both decided it looked good so i decided to keep it.

  i tried to explain to her that as a jw, i wasn't allowed to grow one, but then drew a blank when she asked me why.

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  undercover

  Law handed down orally. Enforced by elders and peer pressure.

  Circuit overseer told the story in one of those 'OBEY or else' talks about an elder from a foreign country who came to the US. He had a beard, the local elders thought it looked fine, no action taken. Along comes the CO who chided the elders for allowing it. Made them tell the bearded elder to lose it or be removed. Why? As the CO said in the talk, 'It's just not done. What is more important? Following rules or demanding personal rights?' The CO was happy to report that the bearded elder shaved his beard and fell in line with rest of the sheep.

  I asked an elder about it one time. He gave me the 'don't want to give the org a bad rep' excuse. He then went on to explain how large corporations have grooming rules for employees. They don't want exposed tattoos, body piercings, facial hair, etc etc. All about the reputation of the corporation. That was the day I finally realized that I wasn't a member of the one true religion, but an unpaid employee for a publishing company.