Posts by johnamos

39

Email from JW relative/elder

by Lynnie in

as much as i enjoy you and pete's company, you also know our understanding of how much we want you to be reunited with jehovah and his people.. .

we did not set the standards for what jehovah says about our associations with those who choose to not serve him.

so we will always be there for you and pete, but it is in your hands as to how we can enjoy your friendship.. .

johnamos

That is because we do not "shun" anyone.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/202017329?q=%22shun%22&p=par

45

Living in the last of the last days - A new prophecy

by Listener in

although not a new concept by the watchtower, particularly in public talks and at assemblies, they have now put this prophecy in writing.watchtower oct 2019 page 8 -13 study no.40 titled -keep busy during the last of "the last days".

the first paragraph asks '1.

what convinces us that we are living in “the last days”?

johnamos

Because so much time has passed since 1914, we must now be living in the last of “the last days.” Since the end is so near, we need to know the answers to some important questions: What events will occur at the end of “the last days”? And what does Jehovah expect us to do while we wait for those events?

a new facility to be constructed in Ramapo, New York... to begin construction in 2022 and complete it by December 2026.

21

2020 Memorial Talk Outline!

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

2020 memorial talk outline.. https://docdro.id/73bh2yg.

.

petra!.

johnamos

When Jesus “comes” during the great tribulation, he will gather his remaining “chosen ones” to heaven,

When will they understand that Jesus does not come 'during' the GT, he comes AFTER it is cut short. Also, he doesn't gather his 'remaining' chosen ones at his coming, NO instead he gathers ALL of them (dead and living) at that time.

[Matt 24:21 for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. 22 In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short...29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.]

[1 Thessalonians 4:15-17…the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Then we the living who are surviving will, at the same time with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with the Lord.]

[1 Corinthians 15:52 in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed.]

20

Was Paul A false Prophet?

by saorean in

i ask the question on the title because there a quite a number of statements the apostle paul made about the coming of jesus and resurrection of the holy ones that never fulfilled.

1 corinthians 15: 51, 52 (nwt) : .

i tell you a sacred secret: we will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.

johnamos

So I ask when they made such statements expressing strong hopes in their ascension to heaven, where they opinions or inspired words?

I would say that it is both, opinion and inspired. Don't be confused between what Jesus/angels/holy spirit directly taught them with being inspired of what to record in their writings of which now is the Bible books we have.

Along with what they were inspired to write of prophecy that was/is to be fulfilled, they were also inspired to write down their interactions, expectations, etc.. negative or not.

As I said, surely all first century Christians were under the impression that Jesus would return in their lifetime as all have been the past ~~2,000~~ 1,986 years later. So while Paul may have been divinely taught about a prophecy, or what have you, and was inspired to write it down, it does not mean that all he was inspired to write down was divinely taught.

I know I am doing a poor job of explaining what I am trying to say. But take for instance Daniel, he was divinely taught (shown/told) things and he said that he heard but did not understand. Likewise, he wrote when he felt frighten, or weak, etc. So he was inspired to write these kinds of details but it does not mean it is all divinely given information.

20

Was Paul A false Prophet?

by saorean in

i ask the question on the title because there a quite a number of statements the apostle paul made about the coming of jesus and resurrection of the holy ones that never fulfilled.

1 corinthians 15: 51, 52 (nwt) : .

i tell you a sacred secret: we will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.

johnamos

I ask the question on the title because there a quite a number of statements the Apostle Paul made about the coming of Jesus and resurrection of the holy ones that never fulfilled.

of course it has not fulfilled yet, because Jesus has not returned.

Evidently this "sacred secret" failed. They all died. And more than 2000 years ahead, here we are.

So on one hand you are claiming that something that Paul stated was not fulfilled but then on the other you are acknowledging that what Paul stated to be fulfilled is yet future.

So if your issue is not that it hasn't been fulfilled yet but rather that it had not been fulfilled in the time frame that you feel Paul had in mind...then what you have to keep in mind is that the 'sacred secret' that Paul was speaking about was about the resurrection of the holy ones occurring at the coming of Jesus at last trumpet.

The 'sacred secret' did not include knowledge of the timing of Jesus' coming. The mere fact that Paul spoke as if that was to occur in his time by the fact the he said 'we the living" is consistent with what was the mindset for ALL first century Christians and ALL since then down to our day (1,986 years later) and that is that no one knows the day and hour but are to keep in expectation/keep the watch, prove themselves ready, etc...has if Jesus' arrival is coming during your own lifetime.

20

Was Paul A false Prophet?

by saorean in

i ask the question on the title because there a quite a number of statements the apostle paul made about the coming of jesus and resurrection of the holy ones that never fulfilled.

1 corinthians 15: 51, 52 (nwt) : .

i tell you a sacred secret: we will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.

johnamos

It has not been fulfilled yet because it is not due to be until Jesus' future arrival.

[1 Thessalonians 4:15-17…the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Then we the living who are surviving will, ‘at the same time’ with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we shall always be with the Lord.]

[Matthew 24:30 And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.]

[1 Corinthians 15:51 Look! I tell YOU a sacred secret: We shall not all fall asleep in death, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, 52 in the twinkling of an eye, 'at' the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed.]

[Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel blew his trumpet. And loud voices occurred in heaven, saying: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ”]

[John 6:39 This is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose none out of all those whom he has given me, but that I should resurrect them on the last day.]

[Rev 20:6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him for the thousand years.]

[2 Peter 3:8 However, do not let this escape your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Lord as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.]

277

Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?

by Doug Mason in

i came across this article written in 2004 by an evangelical.. “when did jerusalem fall?”, rodger young, journal of the evangelical society [jets], 47/1 (march 2004), 21-38.. http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/jerusalem.pdf .

these are the conclusions of the 18-page analysis.

(1) jerusalem fell in the fourth month (tammuz) of 587 bc.

johnamos

WOW that's the thing about posting on boards and not knowing who anyone really is. I get the feeling I am speaking to a 14 year boy.

How old are you scholar? Do you fully read my responses? I have answered you on what you asked and cited Scriptures to back up what I said. My point could not be any clearer and yet you are unable to comprehend...but I will try again, if for any reason, because I have insomnia.

You asked me:

If you truly believe that the nations served Babylon for 70 years then with the exception of Tyre can you document how that period of servitude applied to all the other nations listed amounting to at least 18 in number in Jer. 25:17-26.

My answer was:

From the point that Babylon became the 3rd power by defeating Assyria (609) to the time that Babylon was defeated itself by Medo-Persian (539), is when all the nations were subjected to Babylon. All nations served Babylon for the same amount of time, 70 years (609-539).That is how the period of servitude applied to all the nations.

With that answer and the Scriptures I cited it should be clear that ALL of the nations started serving Babylon from the point that Babylon became the 3rd world power, which was in 609 and they stopped serving Babylon at the point when Babylon came to it's end, which was in 539. Those are the 70 years that ALL the nations served Babylon. That is what the following Scriptures state:

Jeremiah 25:11 And all this land will be reduced to ruins and will become an object of horror, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon for 70 years.”’+ 12 “‘But when 70 years have been fulfilled,+ I will call to account* the king of Babylon and that nation for their error,’+ declares Jehovah, ‘and I will make the land of the Chal·deʹans a desolate wasteland for all time.+

[Jeremiah 27:6 And now I have given all these lands into the hand of my servant King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar of Babylon; even the wild beasts of the field I have given him to serve him. 7 ALL THE NATIONS WILL HAVE TO SERVE him and his son and his grandson until the time for his own land comes, when many nations and great kings will make him their slave.’8 ‘If any nation or kingdom refuses to serve King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar of Babylon and refuses to put its neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon, I will punish that nation with the sword, with famine, and with pestilence,’ declares Jehovah, ‘until I have finished them off by his hand.’9 Therefore, do not listen to your prophets, your diviners, your dreamers, your magicians, and your sorcerers, who are saying to you: “You will not serve the king of Babylon.” 10 For they are prophesying lies to you, so that you will be taken far away from your land and I will disperse you and you will perish.11 ‘But the nation that brings its neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon and serves him, I will allow to remain on its land,’ declares Jehovah, ‘to cultivate it and dwell in it.]

[Daniel 5:26 “This is the interpretation of the word: MEʹNE, God has numbered* the days of your kingdom and has finished* it.+ 27 “TEʹKEL, you have been weighed* in the balances and have been found deficient.+ 28 “PEʹRES, your kingdom has been divided* and given to the Medes and the Persians.”*+ 29 At that time Bel·shazʹzar commanded,* and they clothed Daniel with purple, with a necklace of gold about his neck; and they heralded* concerning him that he was to become the third ruler in the kingdom.+ 30 In that very night* Bel·shazʹzar the Chal·deʹan king was killed+ 31 * and Da·riʹus*+ the Mede himself received the kingdom, being about sixty-two years old.]

[Jeremiah 29:10 This is what the LORD says: "When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my good promise to bring you back to this place. NIV]

277

Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?

by Doug Mason in

i came across this article written in 2004 by an evangelical.. “when did jerusalem fall?”, rodger young, journal of the evangelical society [jets], 47/1 (march 2004), 21-38.. http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/jerusalem.pdf .

these are the conclusions of the 18-page analysis.

(1) jerusalem fell in the fourth month (tammuz) of 587 bc.

johnamos

Oh really! All that you have done is nothing just mentioning Tyre and Babylon, what about the others?

What are you talking about?

I said:

From the point that Babylon became the 3rd power by defeating Assyria (609) to the time that Babylon was defeated itself by Medo-Persian (539), is when all the nations were subjected to Babylon. All nations served Babylon for the same amount of time, 70 years (609-539).That is how the period of servitude applied to all the nations.

And I cited the following Scriptures that show that:

Jeremiah 25:11 And all this land will be reduced to ruins and will become an object of horror, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon for 70 years.”’+ 12 “‘But when 70 years have been fulfilled,+ I will call to account* the king of Babylon and that nation for their error,’+ declares Jehovah, ‘and I will make the land of the Chal·deʹans a desolate wasteland for all time.+

[Jeremiah 27:6 And now I have given all these lands into the hand of my servant King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar of Babylon; even the wild beasts of the field I have given him to serve him. 7 ALL THE NATIONS WILL HAVE TO SERVE him and his son and his grandson until the time for his own land comes, when many nations and great kings will make him their slave.’8 ‘If any nation or kingdom refuses to serve King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar of Babylon and refuses to put its neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon, I will punish that nation with the sword, with famine, and with pestilence,’ declares Jehovah, ‘until I have finished them off by his hand.’9 Therefore, do not listen to your prophets, your diviners, your dreamers, your magicians, and your sorcerers, who are saying to you: “You will not serve the king of Babylon.” 10 For they are prophesying lies to you, so that you will be taken far away from your land and I will disperse you and you will perish.11 ‘But the nation that brings its neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon and serves him, I will allow to remain on its land,’ declares Jehovah, ‘to cultivate it and dwell in it.]

277

Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?

by Doug Mason in

i came across this article written in 2004 by an evangelical.. “when did jerusalem fall?”, rodger young, journal of the evangelical society [jets], 47/1 (march 2004), 21-38.. http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/jerusalem.pdf .

these are the conclusions of the 18-page analysis.

(1) jerusalem fell in the fourth month (tammuz) of 587 bc.

johnamos

If you truly believe that the nations served Babylon for 70 years then with the exception of Tyre can you document how that period of servitude applied to all the other nations listed amounting to at least 18 in number in Jer. 25:17-26.

YES I can and there is no reason to leave Tyre out since it is listed along with the other nations and the Scriptures read 'THESE NATIONS' and 'ALL THE NATIONS".

When Babylon defeated the 2nd world power Assyria in 609, Babylon became the 3rd world power, likewise when Medo-Persian defeated Babylon in 539, Medo-Persian became the 4th world power.*

* [12-1-71 WT p. 715 - This prophecy begins to apply, therefore, after Darius the Mede and Cyrus the Persian brought about the downfall of Babylon in the autumn of the year 539 B.C.E. and the Medo-Persian Empire was established as the Fourth World Power of Bible history. This Empire, which grew to greater size than that of Babylon, eastward and westward and southward, continued its world domination from 539 to 331 B.C.E.]

From the point that Babylon became the 3rd power by defeating Assyria (609) to the time that Babylon was defeated itself by Medo-Persian (539), is when all the nations were subjected to Babylon. All nations served Babylon for the same amount of time, 70 years (609-539).That is how the period of servitude applied to all the nations.

Jeremiah 25:11 And all this land will be reduced to ruins and will become an object of horror, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon for 70 years.”’+ 12 “‘But when 70 years have been fulfilled,+ I will call to account* the king of Babylon and that nation for their error,’+ declares Jehovah, ‘and I will make the land of the Chal·deʹans a desolate wasteland for all time.+

[Jeremiah 27:6 And now I have given all these lands into the hand of my servant King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar of Babylon; even the wild beasts of the field I have given him to serve him. 7 ALL THE NATIONS WILL HAVE TO SERVE him and his son and his grandson until the time for his own land comes, when many nations and great kings will make him their slave.’8 ‘If any nation or kingdom refuses to serve King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar of Babylon and refuses to put its neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon, I will punish that nation with the sword, with famine, and with pestilence,’ declares Jehovah, ‘until I have finished them off by his hand.’9 Therefore, do not listen to your prophets, your diviners, your dreamers, your magicians, and your sorcerers, who are saying to you: “You will not serve the king of Babylon.” 10 For they are prophesying lies to you, so that you will be taken far away from your land and I will disperse you and you will perish.11 ‘But the nation that brings its neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon and serves him, I will allow to remain on its land,’ declares Jehovah, ‘to cultivate it and dwell in it.]

277

Did Jeruselm fall in 587 or 586 BCE?

by Doug Mason in

i came across this article written in 2004 by an evangelical.. “when did jerusalem fall?”, rodger young, journal of the evangelical society [jets], 47/1 (march 2004), 21-38.. http://www.rcyoung.org/articles/jerusalem.pdf .

these are the conclusions of the 18-page analysis.

(1) jerusalem fell in the fourth month (tammuz) of 587 bc.

johnamos

This is simply opinion not historical fact because such cannot be determined definitively so we have some event which is simply too fuzzy so unsuitable to serve as a time marker

You have no idea what you are talking about. The link that I put to the BM has the chronicle that shows the fall of Nineveh as 612 and then 609 was the fall of Haran that did away with the Assyrian empire.

That aside, I showed that the WTS says the fall of Haran was in 629 because they add 20 years to 587 to come to 607 so they have to keep adding the 20 years to everything so the 609 becomes 629.

So with that noted that means that if Babylon defeated Assyrian with that last battle in Haran in 629 then that means Babylon was the 3rd world power for 90 years. (629-539)

WHAT do you say about the FACT that verse 11 says that NATIONS WOULD ONLY HAVE TO SERVE BABYLON FOR 70 YEARS?