someone close to me is a jw, and manic -depressive (or so i think).. for several decades, this person has way overspent.
to the point of not having $50 at the end of the week.
he makes decent money (about $1,000 a week), lives at home (no real living expenses), and no dependents.
Does he have close relatives thatmay be contacted?
This person needs to see a psychiatrist ASAP. Best advice I can give. I have someone very close to me who is bipolar. It took a few years before this person could be persuaded to seek professional help, though.
Eden
1 - reconsider your existence - there might be a reason why the most effective resources to date have been solo efforts.
2 - recognize that even well-intentioned organizations will firstly seek self-preservation.
3 - be aware that egos and emotional stupidity have torn apart much grander edifices than aawa.
You know what's funny?
Earlier on this same thread (Page 1), I pointed out that on their "Under Maintenance" page, 24 hours ago, their motto was:
AAWA.co - The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists - Exposing the hypocrisy and greed of the Watchtower Society
I stated my reasons why that message was the wrong kind of message. To my surprise, I looked at it again today, and now it reads:
AAWA.co - The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists - An international association providing support for those affected by the Watchtower Society.
Well, I guess they've been listening after all. Maybe there's hope. It's a small thing but it's a positive change and worthy of mention.
Eden
hi cedars,.
re: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/scandals/250655/1/i-have-just-been-disinvited-to-my-brothers-wedding-thanks-aawa .
i completely agree with the mission and intentions of aawa.
I think this is where the "business-like model" became a stumbling block for AAWA.
Eden
i am an inactive jw.
i havent been on this forum for a few months and have been lurking in others.
i have met a few people in real life and online, both on this forum and on others.
Over the years I was elected twice by my peers to lead two different professional cooperatives in my industry.
Both times were horrid experiences. Backstabbing, backing off from the given word, rioting, voting in favor of something, then the very next day asking what are you doing, because I haven't voted for that ...etc etc etc...the stories are endless. While it's true that you can't please everyone, the nature of the task of leading groups of free-thinkers / independent professionals is daunting, and takes a heavy toll on whomever is taking the lead. I know I aged a lot while I sat on those chairs.
I don't envy Cedar's position right now. Herding cats, anyone...?
Eden
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DATA-DOG
In other words: We will zig-zag our way as we go, call it a "progressive understanding of the truth", and that zig-zag, rather than showing our lack of insight and guideance from the Holy Spirit, serves as loyalty test to the ones that are spiritually weak, weeding out the unworthy ones. Fabulous!
What ever happened to: “Look! My servant whom I chose, my beloved, whom my soul approved! I will put my spirit upon him, and what justice is he will make clear to the nations. He will not wrangle, nor cry aloud, nor will anyone hear his voice in the broad ways. No bruised reed will he crush, and no smoldering flaxen wick will he extinguish, until he sends out justice with success."- Matthew 12:18-20
The spirit makes things CLEAR, not confusing, even for the ones that are having doubts.
Eden
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Ok, I've found it!
Apparently it was a teaching that was held up on publications until the late 1950's and dropped by the WTS during the late 1960's.
Here's a quote from the book "From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained", (1958) page 197:
"The great crowd has 'come out of the great tribulation'. This is the great tribulation or trouble that Jesus said would mark this 'time of the end'. This tribulation began on the Devil's organization A.D. 1914 when Jehovah's newly enthroned King took war action against his enemies in heaven. Jesus said that this tribulation would be cut short so that some flesh could be saved. How was it cut short? By God's stopping the war action up in heaven against the Devil's organization. So after the Devil was hurled down out of heaven the first part of the 'great tribulation' ended. Soon now the climax or last part of the 'great tribulation' will take place...The last part of the 'great tribulation' means destruction of this world. It is during this in-between period, between the first part and the last part of the 'great tribulation' on the Devil's organization, that the great crowd of 'other sheep' come out. Now is that time."
I find really strange that the GB presents the understanding of the start of the 'Great Tribulation' being a future event as "new light", when the "old light" it supposedly replaces has alreaby been abandoned for well over 40 years and the understanding of the start of the "Great Tribulation" as a future event has been around for decades already.
Eden
Edit: If someone is interested, you can find the link to the pdf. file of the book "From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained" here:
http://www.a2z.org/wtarchive/docs/1958_From_Paradise_Lost_To_Paradise_Regained.pdf
Be patient, it takes a while to download. I have a hard copy of this book but it's not in english.
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Nice work, Doug, thank you.
Although I should point out something that i find confusing. You quote the article on The Watchtower, July 15, 2013, pages 3-4, § 3 :
"For a number of years, we thought that the great tribulation began in 1914 with World War I and that "those days were cut short" by Jehovah in 1918 when the war ended so that the remnant would have the opportunity to preach the good news to all nations. (Mat 24:21, 22) After the completion of that preaching work, Satan's empire would be destroyed. Thus the great tribulation was thought to have three phases: There would be a beginning (1914-1918), the tribulation would be interrupted (from 1918 onward), and it would conclude at Armageddon".
I was surprised to read this, because I have no memory of ever reading such explanation before. This is the part I find confusing. Exactly what has the GB been teaching in recent years about when the Great Tribulation starts? Acording to the above statement, they have taught in had started in 1914? Really??
1 - reconsider your existence - there might be a reason why the most effective resources to date have been solo efforts.
2 - recognize that even well-intentioned organizations will firstly seek self-preservation.
3 - be aware that egos and emotional stupidity have torn apart much grander edifices than aawa.
Thank you Marvin for sheding some light on this matter.
Eden
1 - reconsider your existence - there might be a reason why the most effective resources to date have been solo efforts.
2 - recognize that even well-intentioned organizations will firstly seek self-preservation.
3 - be aware that egos and emotional stupidity have torn apart much grander edifices than aawa.
I will throw my 0.02 about what I think an ASSOCIATION should be doing:
a) Concentrate resources on one website and replicate that website on multiple clones. Make that website something that the Watchtower would hate and fear. Make that website a central resource of information for ex-JW's, faders, active Witnesses that are starting to wake up; the press, political authorities, law enforcement officers, justice officials, lawyers, professionals in the areas of mental health, and medical care. EVERYONE that may have an interest in the activities of the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Watchtower Society and would like to hear a SECOND OPINION about it, not the "official opinion" of the www.jw.org
b) DO NOT MAKE IT AN ANTI-JW or ANTI-WATCHTOWER website!! Allow for a plurality of opinions, from JW apologists to outright Watchtower haters and everything in between. The official position of the website should be one of a MODERATE, UNAUTHORIZED SOURCE OF INFORMATION about the WTS and the activity of the Jehovah's Witnesses.
c) The NAME should be informative and neutral, and avoid negativity, and focusing of the positive result that is intended to be achieved. I suggested once this one: Association for Awareness and Recovery from Watchtower Abuse. (AARWA)
d) The website should give an impartial overview of the activity of the Jehovah's Witnesses and of the Watchtower Society. Remember that it wouldn't be desireable that the website should incite to hatred towards individual witnesses. it should point out the nature of the religion, but not demonize the people.
e) A section of the website should be devoted to expose wrong DOCTRINAL positions of the WTS;
f) Another section of the website should be devoted to expose wrong PRACTICES among the WTS and the JW's;
g) Another section of the website should de bevoted to contain archives of documents related to the WTS. I would think that perhaps Barbara Anderson could consider putting her valuable database of documentation here, for example.
h) Another section should contain opinion blogs from a good number of activists that expose, the watchtower, like Cedars, JwFacts, Marvin Shilmer, Randall Watters; others that disagree with the official doctrines, like Perimeno....or even some active JW apologist that may decide to contribute. These blogs should allow for a degree of interaction with readers, by allowing comments and replies from the blogger etc.
i) Another section should be devoted to present informative information for those who wish to leave the Jehovah's Witnesses, offering practical help and advice. I can suggest that one could ask Steven Hassan to contribute with some material especially adapted to the JW's case. Also should offer assistance to those who want to fade out, those who want to stay in but are finding it troublesome to do that (living a double life), or help for those who are not JW's but want to help relatives and friends to go out.
j) Another section should be directed at the press, with prepared press releases when cases of notice surface - in this way the press may have an easy and quick source of material (for example, information about cases like the Conti case)
k) Videos Section - All sorts of videos, by category. including videos of personal experiences of people who left the WTS, and things like that.
l) A section with links to sites of solo efforts of all sorts of resources regarding the WTS (jwfacts, jwsurvey,freeminds, etc etc)
m) Finaly, integration of a moderated forum like this one, where the members can freely post - exactly as JWN.
n) A live chat feature
o) For those so inclined to think that the leadership of the WTS may one day listen to the R&F, a section devoted to the reform to the Jehovah's Witnesses, where petitions can be made, etc.
Anyway, this is going long ... and i'm getting sleepy.
But you get the picture, i guess.
Eden
1 - reconsider your existence - there might be a reason why the most effective resources to date have been solo efforts.
2 - recognize that even well-intentioned organizations will firstly seek self-preservation.
3 - be aware that egos and emotional stupidity have torn apart much grander edifices than aawa.
The current site is down for maintenance (whatever that means), but it reads this on top:
AAWA.co - The Association of Anti-Watchtower Activists - Exposing the hypocrisy and greed of the Watchtower Society
Now this is what's wrong, IMHO:
They aim to "EXPOSE" - not HELP
They aim to "EXPOSE" the HYPOCRISY and the GREED - What about exposing the ABUSE? What about exposing the DOCTRINAL ERRORS? What about the wrongful practices that show little respect for human values?
Hypocrisy and greed? YAWN! Do you think the press will come running sniffing for blood?
Eden
