Posts by TMS

17

Two Visits From Jehovah's Witnesses This Past Week

by TMS in

jw
friends

my wife and i were both on ladders painting the exposed boards of our storage shed on a weekday when a car pulled into the driveway across the street.

mr. and mrs. gomez were not at home.

like most of the homeowners in this community, they use these homes only on weekends or holidays.

TMS

My first visit of the week from Jehovah's Witnesses was from the English congregation. On Saturday, I was visited by the Spanish.

A minivan parked on the street in front of our home. A man and his son got out and walked down our drive. My wife asked them to wait a second, giving me an opportunity to put on my pants. I stepped out, motioning them to the covered patio outside.

"I like what you've done here!" said the father with a big smile, gesturing toward my landscaping. He was very relaxed, confident. He introduced himself and his son: Frank and Frank, Jr.

He began very nonchalantly: "I own a construction business and work usually 5 or 6 days a week. On weekends I enjoy talking about Jesus and his father Jehovah and what they have in store for all of us." Smooth!

I mentioned that I have some problems with his god. Did he say his name was Jehovah? Is this Jehovah all-knowing and all-powerful?

He assured me that he was. Then how could Father Jehovah stand idle, watching thousands die in the tsunami hitting Indonesia, Sri Lanka, India, and Thailand? Wouldn't an all-knowing god forsee the storm and an all-powerful god protect his children from harm?

Frank nodded his head. He said that he and his wife had talked about this very thing. He said they came up with no answer but launched into the illustration from JW publications about a child needing an operation and the pain of the operation, but the good result that would come out of such pain. I stopped him.

"Frank, can't you see that illustration doesn't fit? No one benefitted from pain here. They lost their lives."

Frank agreed. He shifted to the universal sovereignty issue, proving Satan a liar and God the truthteller. Again, I stopped him.

"Frank, your god is so concerned about his own reputation, he allows his children to suffer all kinds of wars, genocides, natural disasters, etc. just to prove he is not a liar. I don't think that's the kind of father you are."

Frank said something odd: "I like the way you speak. And don't worry about saying these things in front of young Frank, Jr. He hears his mom and I talking about these things all the time. We are a very open family."

Frank said: "Jehovah's Witnesses probably don't have everything right, but I think they are close. We just want a better life, not just for us but for you and everyone."

He then went into a brief comparison between the nominal churches and JW's. He mentioned pedophile priests. I stopped him again.

"Frank, don't you know that you have pedophiles among Jehovah's Witnesses?" He said: "Yes, I know I ran one of them off a couple of months ago." He related the story of a brother at the Kingdom Hall he observed hugging the young sisters. He noticed his hands were roaming inappropriately. He approached the man: "You and me outside." The man hesitated, stating that he had a part on the program shortly and couldn't leave. Frank told him that either he would step out voluntarily or Frank would drag him out.

Once outside, Frank stated that he gave the man an ultimatum. "If I ever see you put your hands on a young girl like that, I will not go to the elders. It will be decided between you and I alone. Do you understand?" Frank was getting somewhat animated as he recounted this.

Our conversation wound down pleasantly with Frank promising to return. I really doubt that he will. But I never expected such an agreeable exchange with one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

tms

17

Two Visits From Jehovah's Witnesses This Past Week

by TMS in

jw
friends

my wife and i were both on ladders painting the exposed boards of our storage shed on a weekday when a car pulled into the driveway across the street.

mr. and mrs. gomez were not at home.

like most of the homeowners in this community, they use these homes only on weekends or holidays.

TMS

Before I describe my next visit this week from Jehovah's Witnesses, I think I should mention that two separate, very different groups of JW's work the territory in the Rio Grande Valley; English and Spanish. In this area the Spanish outnumber the English by approximately 10:1. The Spanish always have a circuit assembly locally, with the English traveling sometimes 300 miles.

Having read some of the letters from the Society in the 60's regarding the makeup of the English and Spanish congregations, it is obvious that their directives were not followed. The Society's intention was that all of those who spoke fluent English, regardless of ethnicity, would attend the English congregations. The Spanish congregations would consist of those not fluent in the English language. That is not what happened.

The Spanish congregations are populated by whole extended families who did not want to be broken up despite the fact that the younger generations have been taught in English-speaking schools and speak fluent English. I applaud them for that. I submit that the majority of those in the Spanish congregations speak fluent English. Many of the elders are professional people, school administrators, municipal workers, lawyers. etc.

It may actually be an economic advantage in this part of the country to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses in the Spanish congregation. To work in the communities, the one language you must speak is Spanish. English is optional. Most native Spanish speakers are not literate in Spanish. Spanish Jehovah's Witnesses are-having read and studied the Watchtower in Spanish, given talks in the Theocratic Ministry School in Spanish and conducted countless Bible studies in Spanish. These folks are highly employable in this culture.

Driving by the Brownsville, Texas Civic Center on a weekend I noticed the marquis: "Assemblia de los Testigos de Jehova". In front of the main building were fully operating rides with miniature race cars, etc. Little hispanic boys and girls in suits and dresses were riding these cars. I smiled. That is something the English JW's would never permit; having fun at an assembly. That is just one of the differences between the two groups.

tms

17

Two Visits From Jehovah's Witnesses This Past Week

by TMS in

jw
friends

my wife and i were both on ladders painting the exposed boards of our storage shed on a weekday when a car pulled into the driveway across the street.

mr. and mrs. gomez were not at home.

like most of the homeowners in this community, they use these homes only on weekends or holidays.

TMS

My wife and I were both on ladders painting the exposed boards of our storage shed on a weekday when a car pulled into the driveway across the street. Mr. and Mrs. Gomez were not at home. Like most of the homeowners in this community, they use these homes only on weekends or holidays. We are among the few permanent residents.

I continued to watch the car as I painted. It was a full-size Cadillac like realtors use. No one exited the car for
several minutes, so I imagined a realtor describing and pointing out features of the house. Eventually, the driver's
door opened and a man with a book bag exited, soon joined by a teenaged girl from the back seat. They stood, knocking on and facing the door for several minutes. Jehovah's Witnesses in the neighborhood!

As we continued painting, two young men, one anglo and one hispanic approached our fence. The young blonde boy intro-
duced himself and his companion, almost shouting. He didn't really give us time to respond. He simply said: "Keep painting! I will leave you an important invitation under the mat." The blonde boy could have been me forty-five years ago. He was very self-assured and saw nothing inappropriate in commanding two senior citizens to keep painting.

When I later picked up the invitation, I noticed it was to a JW convention in Katy, TX. Google Earth estimated the distance from my home to the convention center as 337 miles and the travel time as 6 hours, 4 minutes. What would be the odds of some non-witness in this remote fishing village responding to this invitation? Would they find Katy, Texas just west of Houston? Once there, where would they spend the night with all the available motel rooms taken up by the witnesses who invited them?

tms

216

great guitarist....guitar solos...and performances

by purplesofa in

i am collecting guitar musicians.......their music.

i am collecting great perfomances.....rare ones of musicians that would not otherwise be together......

i wold love your input.........and would share music with those interested.

TMS

purplesofa,

A little too far! LOL! We saw Eric Johnson, Buddy Guy and B.B. King together once in Memphis. What a mixed crowd! All the young people were asking "Who's Buddy Guy?" and the old folks were going "Eric Johnson?" After Eric and Buddy played and as B.B was making the stage, several armed Memphis police came into the audience. An older black lady next to us shouted out: "B.B, what's all this? No one wants your 300lb ass!"

tms

216

great guitarist....guitar solos...and performances

by purplesofa in

i am collecting guitar musicians.......their music.

i am collecting great perfomances.....rare ones of musicians that would not otherwise be together......

i wold love your input.........and would share music with those interested.

TMS

purplesofa,

We first heard Buddy Guy on the banks of Arkansas River at Little Rock in 1991. I now realize what a great performance that was. Joe Satriani and John Mayall preceded Buddy. It was dark by the time the headliner came on stage. This powerful man in overalls and white t-shirt with gleaming white teeth came on stage and burst into "Damn Right I've Got the Blues." We've been Buddy Guy fans ever since.

An obscure performer we saw first at Memphis in May and later at Juanita's in Little Rock was Clarence Gatemouth Brown. Here is the link: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/22320/1.ashx

Also, Johnny Winter occasionally plays at Juanita's.

tms

33

Do you have nightmares about going back?

by Mysterious in

jw
friends

anyone else ever have nightmares where they find themselves in a kingdom hall.

i keep dreaming i came home and my mom laid out my clothes and just like a robot i put them on and go to the book study all the while thinking how it's wrong and i shouldn't be here but i can't stop myself.

TMS

Gumby,

I do recall a bit of my dreams. I'm not an ex-Jw in my dreams. I'm not an ex-anything. I'm at assemblies, giving talks, at my work, on vacation. I'm doing all the things I did in my life but without the belief system. I can't consciously steer these dreams to accommodate my "apostate" views." LOL!

tms

ps: thanks for the kind remarks

33

Do you have nightmares about going back?

by Mysterious in

jw
friends

anyone else ever have nightmares where they find themselves in a kingdom hall.

i keep dreaming i came home and my mom laid out my clothes and just like a robot i put them on and go to the book study all the while thinking how it's wrong and i shouldn't be here but i can't stop myself.

TMS

Juni,

"Fighting back?" Well, yes. But I was the analytical one who stayed in an obvious cult for more than five decades. So who's to blame?

Something resonated with me many years ago, the idea that stress comes from not having control over a situation. I certainly felt that during my secular career, subservient, subject to many I felt were unqualified to direct me. It frequently took the long drive home for my anger to subside.

My congregation experience was the total opposite. A congregation servant at 21, an elder for all the years after, I could control almost anything important to me. Generally laid back, I only got riled at the bull-in-a-china closet elder who thought he was the GB's direct messenger. That kind could do harm and I tried to at least lay down a speed bump in their path.

All of that changed when our son was df'd. Now, it was my wife and I who were powerless. That psychological brick wall was accompanied by serious physical side effects. We both aged about twenty years in five.

My cheerful, humorous facade disappears at sleeptime. Then I seem to be totally aware of all the good and bad in my life.

33

Do you have nightmares about going back?

by Mysterious in

jw
friends

anyone else ever have nightmares where they find themselves in a kingdom hall.

i keep dreaming i came home and my mom laid out my clothes and just like a robot i put them on and go to the book study all the while thinking how it's wrong and i shouldn't be here but i can't stop myself.

TMS

Whether or not they are in the nightmare category, my dreams certainly incorporate my entire life experience. I've been retired for almost three years and out of the WT for about ten, but it's hard to erase almost sixty years of life experiences from the memory log.

My dreams find me in frustrating conversations with fellow JW's, in frustration at my thirty year deadend job, etc. The dreams parallel real life in that the characters act as you would expect. I am no more heroic in my dreams than I was during those years.

My wife says that I'm very animated and, at times, loud.

tms

37

"Slogging" - the top speed at which JWs go door to door

by LovesDubs in

jw
friends

i know this topic has been beat to death probably in here...but i was watching some of the "friends" going down my street the other day (and they categorically skip my house because satan and i are tight you know) and it reminded me so much of how much i hated going door to door and how i prayed when it was my turn to knock that nobody was home.

and we walked down those streets with our little territory cards in hand, making anywhere from meticulous to rediculous notes about the house we were just at...and moving our feet as slowly as we possibly could to maintain a forward motion at all, to eat up the time we were forced to (yes i said forced to) report every month.

field service was what you called the time you spent between when you were at mcdonalds and dunkin donuts.

TMS

There have been a number of great threads on this subject on JWD.

Every congregation has a house close to the KH that is always "not at home" and the publishers always use to "start their time".

"Drive-by's": Return visits that can be determined from the car to be "not at home".

Break rules get embellished over the years by what pioneers and publishers observe CO's and DO's doing. My pioneer group stopped each day at a Mexican Restaurant and used an awesome coupon. We ate for almost nothing, counted our time straight through, leaving a tract on the table(or letting the waitress in on our "primary activity."

A brother signed up for auxiliary pioneering, only to find his car to need overhauling. Solution: He overhauled his car that month, counting his time. I won't give you all his rationalizations.

A recent JWD thread detailed a brother's 5 mile hike to a forest ranger's cabin(no vehicles allowed). He left back issues of the mags at the cabin and counted his time both ways.

In the 60's I had a Bible study call me every morning at 8:00 to discuss the daily text. She woke me up and started my time every morning.

I recall another thread. A brother awoke at 7:00 am, dropped a tract from the window of his upstairs inner city apartment and took a shower with his theocratic meter already running.

I will stop there, but there are so many, many more.

tms

44

The WBTS: Accomplices To Its Own Demise

by AMNESIAN in

jw
friends

excerpt #1 .

excerpt #2: (semi-verbatim, highly-reliable paraphrase)

but whats coming out of their mouths is still from jehovahs table, its still food we need.

TMS

Thank you, Amnesian, for yet another informative, articulate post.

For being one of the supplemental, middle-aged GBers, Herd has lost touch rather quickly.

First of all, almost no CO, DO or heavy Bethelite would not realize that such palatial accommodations would not be made available for the rank and file. A few I have known would have had the courage and morality to decline such. Others would have been embarassed, but quietly enjoyed the perk. I can't think of anyone brainless enough to use near simony as an example of Jehovah's blessing in a public address.

As to the glimpse into the GB operation style: Herd is in the young faction, designated to bolster the near-comatose. That is why it is doubly inappropriate for the "uncovering" of the aged ones to come from him. All this does is demystify "Jehovah's organization" for his name people. Again, he forgets. For years, I have heard about GB arguments and wrangling, pouting etc., usually from sources who thought I was spiritually strong enough to take it.

His assault on would-be female correctors is almost 1950-ish. Any elderess worth her Lot's wife salt, knows more subtle and effective ways of steering the congregation. LOL!

tms