i read in a letter from walter salter to j. f. rutherford that salter states that rutherford does not go in field service and salter admonishes rutherford to start going in field service so that he will "know what you are talking about".. i found this a bit surprising.
so, i want to ask anyone who knows the inner workings at the hqs.
do the top men go in field service?
JT, the former Bethelite who used to post in this forum, spoke of a young Bethelite's responsibility to purchase a Sunday New York Times for Brother Knorr and other GB members at the time. and deliver them personally to their Bethel apartment doors. Knorr and his cronies were in bathrobe and slippers Sunday morning while the JW rank and file preached.
tms
the stories never stop.
abusive, egotistical, demanding, ungrateful and arrogant circuit overseers all over the place and "men" -the elders - take it.. i have seen a number of these itinerant predators offend entire congregations with their behavior and i can count the incidents where elders actually showed some b@lls and stood up to them on one hand.
why are elders such cowards?
Good for you, truman.
got our new co. old school guy, 70 yrs old.
mo is "youre all not doing enough".
sigh.. three yrs of this asshole..
lol, Billy. . . . .
just to add: Prepared meals served precisely at noon on weekdays, health insurance, green handshakes above and beyond "expenses". all of the congregation's Bible studies rescheduled for a two hour afternoon Wednesday to Friday window if you want CO or CO wife accompaniment. Frequently, if a congregation has a morning Sunday meeting, the CO is a "no-show" for afternoon field service. Actual field service may also be limited by "shepherding call" on some person inactive since the 50's and the extended break at McDonalds.
Let me give my most flagrant example of the CO lifestyle: In 1970 I was a young Congregation Overseer in rural Arkansas. I was driving 60 miles round trip to a part-time minimum wage job, pioneering and trying to serve the congregation. Our new CO was from Dallas, tanned, well-dressed and, as I later learned a scratch golfer. On Tuesday, we were to meet to "go over the records". Since he was late and I knew the routine, I started figuring the ministerial servants hours, etc., the meeting attendance, territory coverage, etc. He poked his head in the Kingdom Hall about an hour late, apologizing and saying he would have to take a shower. I continued working, accounts, literature, etc. When he finally showed I had finished everything. He was sort of stunned, did a few checks of my figures and said: "Well, we're done." He then asked if I played golf and if there was a good golf course close by.
On Wednesday night, a fire broke out at a sister's house. Before going over there I called the CO to see if he wanted to go with me. He begged off, saying he had consumed a glass of wine and didn't want to offend. I went alone.
On Saturday afternoon after field service, Bro. CO handed me a talk outline. He was being called out of town in an urgent matter. Would I give the Public Talk for him?
I kid you not.
tms
the stories never stop.
abusive, egotistical, demanding, ungrateful and arrogant circuit overseers all over the place and "men" -the elders - take it.. i have seen a number of these itinerant predators offend entire congregations with their behavior and i can count the incidents where elders actually showed some b@lls and stood up to them on one hand.
why are elders such cowards?
metatron,
As you note, there have been a few who would speak up when the situation merited. Most of us were too concerned about our standing, speaking assignments at the next circuit or district assembly, etc. Another emasculating factor is the "respect for those taking the lead" and "double honor" BS, you know the Aaron/Moses thing.
On an occasion many years ago, I politely disagreed with a CO during an elder's meeting. After the meeting, one arrogant kiss ass who had just been appointed city overseer tried to ignite a "disrespect for a circuit overseer" lynch mob, but the furor quickly dissipated.
I thought of several examples of elder courage after reading your post. I will relate just one from the 70's: Gerald Grizzle was serving as a district overseer and met with the elders. He had a prepared outline from the society which he kept to carefully. As we know the 70's presented a lot of dress and grooming issues. The outline recommended that elders take note of how folks were dressed and groomed when attending church services in our respective communities, the idea being that JW's should reflect at least that standard if not being even more conservative. One very young elder raised his hand and was acknowledged. I still remember his words almost verbatum: "Brother Grizzle, with all due respect, since when do we allow Christendom to set the standard for anything we do?" You could see the blood rush to Grizzle's face. He folded up the outline and aborted the meeting, saying something to the effect that he could see that instructions from the faithful and discreet slave were not being given appropriate honor.
tms
Gr
it seems that more is required of disfellowshipped people who are trying to be reinstated than witnesses who are in good standing.. for example, i often hear that a disfellowshipped person must have a good record of meeting attendance before being considered for reinstatement.
if they are not regular in attendance their request for reinstatement will be denied.
but, witnesses in good standing are not disciplined or punished in any way for missing meetings.. and what if the disfellowshipped person is known to be socializing with coworkers or dating a worldly person?
From Pistoff: :
"A far cry from the parable of Jesus, where the prodigal is accepted from a distance and welcomed into the home; no mention of attendance records and interrogation about how he is "showing conduct befitting repentance."
Exactly. The Watchtower version of so-called reinstatement is the exact opposite of the parable of the prodigal son. It's also not a true reinstatement as the next cycle of groveling comes with a gradual "restoration of privileges:. I've seen elders flex their congregational muscles to deny very basic congregational percs like giving a talk in the TMS for some time after reinstatement if the returnee was not catering to their every whim.
tms
it seems that more is required of disfellowshipped people who are trying to be reinstated than witnesses who are in good standing.. for example, i often hear that a disfellowshipped person must have a good record of meeting attendance before being considered for reinstatement.
if they are not regular in attendance their request for reinstatement will be denied.
but, witnesses in good standing are not disciplined or punished in any way for missing meetings.. and what if the disfellowshipped person is known to be socializing with coworkers or dating a worldly person?
What the elders are supposed to be monitoring is evidence of true repentance, but in reality reinstatement involves catering to a very superficial display of attendance, condescension and adherence to whatever arbitrary whims the local judicial committee chooses to impose. Some play the game well, others not so well. A respectful demeanor while sitting on the back row, taking copious notes especially when someone serving on your committee is speaking, dressing down somewhat, never making eye contact with an active JW, making every meeting.
When you meet with the committee considering your reinstatement, you fully acknowledge your sinful course, how the Bible, the Watchtower, the meetings and the wise counsel of the elders has moved you to totally change your thinking and view of matters. If your DFing involved a relationship with another person, you've absolutely cut all ties. . . no association, phone calls, texting, etc. He/she is out of your life.
tms
any thoughts on that particular phrasing?
personally, i think the wts uses it as another form of mind control.
by calling the individual "one of jehovah's witnesses," it lends a generic feel to the wording.
It's certainly considered part of the "pattern of truth" to be grammatically correct identifying oneself as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I've noticed that now my wife and I always use one of the incorrect forms consciously.
Bill Williams, the man I wrote about 8-1/2 years ago http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/5736/1/Not-of-Our-Sort-Part-I identified himself at the door as a "member of a much-maligned sect known as Jehovah's Witnesses". Of course, he never went to the door with a book bag, only a bible in his hand and perhaps a magazine or tract in his inside coat pocket.
tms
one question that stretched theologians during the middle ages was; could god envision or make a four sided triangle or a three sided square or some other atrocity.
at first the problem seems foolish, but it really is an instance of a more fundamental problem: is god bound and limited by the laws of reason and logic or not?.
i've had this conversation on jwd before but i was never satisfied with it.
God is such a great god. Were he to create such a rock as beyond his strength to lift, he would simply create more strength. Were he inclined to then add mass to the rock, he would again increase his own strength. Were he. . . . . . . . .
Were god to create a rock beyond his own strength, he could simply increase the mass of everything but the rock, making the rock relatively smaller. . . . were the rock relatively smaller, everything else would be relatively larger. Can you relate to that?
God is such a great god. . . . .
so it was time for the 25 year reunion of tawas area high school's class of '84.
because i was class president, i've been responsible for throwing all the reunions we've held.
while i come to michigan on business a few times per year, i don't usually make it all the way up to the little, northeast, lake huron tourist town where they live.
Confession,
Your father must have faced some mental anguish going through a Pioneer Service School, knowing his son has "left Jehovah." If he's just going to the school at 76, that means that he's pioneered for a year and had not attended previously. Your situation could have caused him to examine his belief system more closely but instead he chose to "get closer to Jehovah" just over a year ago. I suspect he thinks of you at nearly every door he knocks on. He has good news to share with others, knowing his own son won't get "life." It's a hollow, empty feeling.
Sixteen years ago this month our son was df'd. My wife and I had not yet experienced our epiphany and were still true believers, although disheartened. We tried to continue pioneering but each step in field service was painful and heavy. In an ironic twist, the circuit overseer called. He was leaving his assignment a week early after three years. Could I fill in for him as pioneer school instructor? I agreed. It was a very melancholy week for me, performing almost on autopilot. It felt hypocritical at best, nearly traitorous.
Your dad must be feeling some of this. It's torture. The "visitation" you've so successfully navigated with the skillful assistance of your wife, is a superlative rescue attempt on several levels. It may or may not spark real introspection by your parents, but it has to give you some peace of mind.
tms
what is the one cd you would want to have with you?
assuming you had a means of playing and hearing it.
awesome sound system actually...............wait, that's not the point, it's the music of choice that counts..
David Bowie frequently raised this question and answered it, usually wanting to give props to some legendary blues or soul artist. On occasion, he would mention, Buddy Guy. I could live with that.
My personal preference would be any one of 10 Dylan albums. I usually listen to those for a year or two, then again.
tms
