Posts by TMS

23

Could God create a rock so heavy He could not lift it?

by nicolaou in

one question that stretched theologians during the middle ages was; could god envision or make a four sided triangle or a three sided square or some other atrocity.

at first the problem seems foolish, but it really is an instance of a more fundamental problem: is god bound and limited by the laws of reason and logic or not?.

i've had this conversation on jwd before but i was never satisfied with it.

TMS

God is such a great god. Were he to create such a rock as beyond his strength to lift, he would simply create more strength. Were he inclined to then add mass to the rock, he would again increase his own strength. Were he. . . . . . . . .

Were god to create a rock beyond his own strength, he could simply increase the mass of everything but the rock, making the rock relatively smaller. . . . were the rock relatively smaller, everything else would be relatively larger. Can you relate to that?

God is such a great god. . . . .

58

My JW parents met my wife, but would not see me...

by Confession in

so it was time for the 25 year reunion of tawas area high school's class of '84.

because i was class president, i've been responsible for throwing all the reunions we've held.

while i come to michigan on business a few times per year, i don't usually make it all the way up to the little, northeast, lake huron tourist town where they live.

TMS

Confession,

Your father must have faced some mental anguish going through a Pioneer Service School, knowing his son has "left Jehovah." If he's just going to the school at 76, that means that he's pioneered for a year and had not attended previously. Your situation could have caused him to examine his belief system more closely but instead he chose to "get closer to Jehovah" just over a year ago. I suspect he thinks of you at nearly every door he knocks on. He has good news to share with others, knowing his own son won't get "life." It's a hollow, empty feeling.

Sixteen years ago this month our son was df'd. My wife and I had not yet experienced our epiphany and were still true believers, although disheartened. We tried to continue pioneering but each step in field service was painful and heavy. In an ironic twist, the circuit overseer called. He was leaving his assignment a week early after three years. Could I fill in for him as pioneer school instructor? I agreed. It was a very melancholy week for me, performing almost on autopilot. It felt hypocritical at best, nearly traitorous.

Your dad must be feeling some of this. It's torture. The "visitation" you've so successfully navigated with the skillful assistance of your wife, is a superlative rescue attempt on several levels. It may or may not spark real introspection by your parents, but it has to give you some peace of mind.

tms

32

So, if you were marooned on a desert island..........................

by beksbks in

what is the one cd you would want to have with you?

assuming you had a means of playing and hearing it.

awesome sound system actually...............wait, that's not the point, it's the music of choice that counts..

TMS

David Bowie frequently raised this question and answered it, usually wanting to give props to some legendary blues or soul artist. On occasion, he would mention, Buddy Guy. I could live with that.

My personal preference would be any one of 10 Dylan albums. I usually listen to those for a year or two, then again.

tms

9

Public or Group Prayer As A Weapon

by TMS in

jw
friends

one of the sillier notions taught at km schools is the concept of "teaching through prayer.

" the idea is that words supposedly directed to jehovah god through christ jesus are actually aimed at individuals who are in a position to say "amen" to the supplication.

for example, in a judicial setting brother pompous opens the hearing in prayer: "dear jehovah, we ask your blessing on this arrangement.

TMS

One of the sillier notions taught at KM Schools is the concept of "teaching through prayer." The idea is that words supposedly directed to Jehovah God through Christ Jesus are actually aimed at individuals who are in a position to say "amen" to the supplication.

For example, in a judicial setting Brother Pompous opens the hearing in prayer: "Dear Jehovah, we ask your blessing on this arrangement. May you open Brother Fornicator's heart so as to be totally forthcoming with his conduct. May all of us, dear Father, be ever mindful of your watchful eye on all of our activities and, to the extent we confess them, to your tender mercies. . . . . . . ."

This is obviously an exaggeration, but not by very much.

Public prayer at a congregation meeting can also be used to "teach": "Jehovah, please create in us a submissive spirit, that we may always be obedient to those taking the lead among us, be modest in our dress and grooming, avoid a complaining or gossiping spirt, support the congregation's arrangements, put the Kingdom first in our lives, shunning the world's materialism, do our part in keeping the congregation clean, etc."

These phrases thinly disguise various agendas of individual elders. The thinking is that whoever is being talked to through prayer will straighten up and fly right.

This is just another weapon used in the despicable theocratic warfare.

tms

46

Straight from the C.O.

by swa in

hello all, i have been lurking, looking, reading, and digesting for around 2 years and it seems the time is right to post.

i recently had one of those moments at the kindom hall where i found myself looking around thinking "am i the only one who gets it, why doesn't anyone else have this puzzled look on their face?".

said during is second talk to the congregation "all of our food, our magazines, and all our wonderful books, and videos come from/through these 9 men".

TMS

For so long the GB was a hazy, anonymous group of unnumbered men for most JW's. We knew Knorr, Franz, Suiter, Larsen and maybe one or two others. During the 50's and 60's at least, we seemed to think of Knorr as running things with other important men under his direction.

I recall a Circuit Overseer prayer c.1968: "And dear Jehovah, we are so thankful that the Watchtower now reveals the names of the 12 men on the governing body. Oh, Father, thank you for that so much. . . . . . "

That was sort of a beginning of attention to the GB for me.

tms

20

what was the jw`s high water mark?

by warmasasunned in

jw
friends

when were the jw`s at there peak.

i remember when i became a witness in 1986 there seemed to be almost an electricity in the air in my part of the world nottingham england (for all those outside the uk where robinhood legend comes from).. when we went on the ministry there would sometimes be as many as 60 people mainly in there early twenties, we couldnt fit in one room and had to stand outside sometimes, now when i see the jw`s out and about there maybe 4 or 5 in number mainly old people.. i remember those days, coming to the end of the cold war, berlin wall coming down, band aid (feet of clay prophecy) peace and sercurity etc etc, it seemed arrmageddon was just round the corner, of course the jw`s still had there sell by date then (1914 gen).

was that when the witnesses were at there strongest.

TMS

Actually, Reniaa, a relatively young witness, such as yourself would not have the perspective to answer such a question. After you've been a JW for fifty or more years, you will be able to look back at the doctrinal flip-flops, the failed prophecies, the organizational misjudgements of your era.

I'm relatively certain that each successive generation of JWs have experienced a certain ebb and flow of organizational energy. During Pastor Russell's heyday, when he was "putting the hose on hell" in debates with clergymen and writing a weekly newspaper column published in dozens of newspapers, I'm sure the brethren felt energized. Then 1914 came and went and Russell fell into a depression with an obviously failed prophecy.

In the years preceding 1925 when JWs expected an earthly resurrection of "ancient worthies' to rule as princes on the earth, I'm sure things got exciting. When that didn't happen, there had to be a letdown.

As you read, for many of us the years before the failed prophecy concerning 1975 were exciting.

You'll just have to find your own high and low points, Reniaa.

tms

20

what was the jw`s high water mark?

by warmasasunned in

jw
friends

when were the jw`s at there peak.

i remember when i became a witness in 1986 there seemed to be almost an electricity in the air in my part of the world nottingham england (for all those outside the uk where robinhood legend comes from).. when we went on the ministry there would sometimes be as many as 60 people mainly in there early twenties, we couldnt fit in one room and had to stand outside sometimes, now when i see the jw`s out and about there maybe 4 or 5 in number mainly old people.. i remember those days, coming to the end of the cold war, berlin wall coming down, band aid (feet of clay prophecy) peace and sercurity etc etc, it seemed arrmageddon was just round the corner, of course the jw`s still had there sell by date then (1914 gen).

was that when the witnesses were at there strongest.

TMS

The 1958 Yankee Stadium/Polo Grounds assembly was notable but provided no great surge as I recall. We bragged about the attendance of 253,922 every chance we got. That attendance and the number of times the name Jehovah appears in the American Standard Version Bible, 6823, are indelibly scored in my brain.

A case can be made for 1966-1975 as the Golden Era of JWs:

1. The summer of 1966 saw the release of the book Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God detailing the chronology supporting the '75 speculation. That speculation sparked the rash of meeting parts, traveling overseer service talks that seriously implied that this "system" would end in 1975.

2. The release of the book The Truth That Leads to Eternal Life in 1968 and the subsequent 6 month study limitation.

3. Nightly news reports featuring casualties of the Vietnam War, U.S. cities burning do to civil unrest, the civil rights movement in the mid to late 60's, the violent '68 Democratic Convention in Chicago. JW's were clearly feeling the "Last Days."

4. Radical social change brought on by Haight Ashbury, The Beatles, Timothy Leary, the Weather Underground, Students for a Democratic Society, the Black Panthers, the Chicago 7, etc. Exciting times to be a JW!

5. Radical organizational changes mentioned at the 1971 district conventions: The elder arrangement implemented in 1972. Few seem to remember this, but there was even a talk at that assembly strongly hinting that field service time would no longer be counted. That was never implemented, of course.

tms

35

Witnet closes its Door for good...

by Pathofthorns in

jw
friends

kind of a sad but inevitable end to a special and unique place on the net.

free speech is severely limited in the truth, and the wide range of opinion and viewpoint between the old school and the new school i'm sure made operating such a site a challenge.. for me the most facinating thing was the way one could see thinking troubled witnesses contrasted with the ones who were the mindless products of an organization.

i think it was a valuable window into the worldwide picture of what is happening today in the religion.. the site was helpful to me, and for that it holds a special place with me.

TMS

RR,

Yes, I remember you and your informative posts. Witnet was a great place to start.

tms

11

Firpo Carr said Michael Jackson wanted kids raised as Jehovah's Witnesses

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

but how long ago did this happen?.

randy.

see end of my article at:.

TMS

I listened to Firpo's comments. He's repeated the story at least twice. He carefully sets it up as a private conversation between him and Michael. He gives a lot of believable detail, but the actual story doesn't ring true. Why would Michael Jackson be concerned about his children studying the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses at some time in the indeterminate future when they could have done so anytime. I got the impression that the nanny was a JW also, so a "study" would have been easy to arrange if desired.

tms

124

How many here have worked in social work, etc. & DON'T think MJ was a molester?

by avishai in

i mean, c'mon, people.

seriously, i admire those who want to think the best.

but the guy had just about every red flag/indicator you can have.

TMS

I'm not convinced Jackson was a sexual predator.

I've known three child molesters personally and observed others. My father was a child molester. When I was in my early twenties I replaced a Congregation Servant or Overseer who was a child molester. Later in life I closely observed a JW elder who cleverly hid his molestations for a number of years. All three men had voracious sex drives and to varying extents bully personalities. Before you rush to describe these observations as stereotypical, let me just say that I'm just sharing my personal life experience.

Little about Michael Jackson seems normal. Does the phrase "arrested development" fit? Do you think he can function sexually? Without being too graphic, do you think he's capable of providing sperm for insemination? Recently a story aired about a sixteen year old girl who never developed beyond infancy. I view Jackson somewhat similarly as not developing psychologically, mentally beyond preteen. I've never heard him say anything that couldn't have been said by a twelve year old.

Jackson made an inexcusably stupid statement about sharing a bed with his friends and evidently shared wine with underage visitors. That circumstantial evidence alone would be enough for a judicial committee of Jehovah's Witnesses. But it's not enough for me. I'm not certain about this.

tms