TMS

Joined

• started 104 topics
• posted 947 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by TMS

• 
  32

  The Governing NARCISSUS: the psychology of the FDS

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  narcissism is a term of psychology/psychiatry characterized this way.. has a grandiose sense of self-importance .

  is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love .

  believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by other special people .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TMS

  bttt: a worthy topic
• 
  32

  The Governing NARCISSUS: the psychology of the FDS

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  narcissism is a term of psychology/psychiatry characterized this way.. has a grandiose sense of self-importance .

  is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love .

  believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by other special people .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TMS

  Terry,

  Reducing your psychological characterizations to a simple base; great history of the WBTS.

  Although painted in sanitized JW history books as humble men, CTR and the Judge had to have astronomical egos to allow themselves to be portrayed and revered in such a way without strenous protest.

  You are absolutely correct in thinking that JW's feel superiority over everyone else in their community. A nominal JW who "places" one set of the W & A has soared past Mother Teresa in Almighty Jehovah's eyes.

  I recall the urban legend conversation between Nathan Knorr and Richard Burton related by Knorr at a convention. When Burton asked Knorr if JW's were brainwashed. Knorr said he replied: "Well, maybe, but our minds are cleaner than yours."

  I suggest that this feeling of superiority is a good part of the wind behind the JW sail, but not all of it.

  tms
• 
  62

  Barbara Anderson's Paedophilia CD: The Watchtowers Chocolate Cake Defence

  by Duncan in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i received my copy of barbara andersons cd paedophilia in an american religion a month or two ago, and i have been reading through it since.. what follows, although i have called this a review, is in no sense a scholarly consideration of the legal merits of the cases described, a task for which i am wholly unqualified.

  these are, rather, my subjective reflections on the material presented, the impressions i gathered while reading the legal filings, my untrained, common-man appraisal of the cases laid out in those documents.

  ill also admit to being swayed by tone of voice adopted, and to using my own common-sense yardstick in determining the reasonableness of the statements made, the responses given and the arguments put forward.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TMS

  Nice work, Duncan.

  "If Jehovah read Barbara Anderson’s CD would he be proud of what the Watchtower does?"

  Jehovah once killed the newborn offspring of a murderer/adulterer to atone for his father's sins. The Watchtower is very much like its father. If there ever was an "end justifies the means" organization, it is the WTBS.

  tms
• 
  61

  What are Strangest Grounds For Disfellowshiping You Have Heard Of?

  by new boy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in 1961 my father was disfellowshipped for not doing to the kingdom hall he was assigned to.. if i'm lying...my dying!.

  it was the glendora california congeration.

  the committee was.. john smoley.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TMS

  As an 18 yr old "Bible Study Servant" and part ot the Judicial Committee, my first two judicial cases were on the weird side:

  1. An elderly sister, a nominal JW, was observed perusing materials in the Christian Science Reading Room. The lady had no transportation and this was a convenient spot to sit and read. She was not impressed with the committee's barage of scriptures and pleadings. She simply saw "no harm" in reading in the room. The committee kept Jehovah's org clean by DFing her.

  2. Not a DFing, but my second case involved an 11 yr old baptized JW who had pocketed a "Hot Wheel" car at K-Mart. The boy was nearly mute during the proceedings never say more than: "I dunno." Despite his non-participation in the proceedings, he was judged repentant. He was place on probation, the rough equivalent of private reproof.

  3. Some years later in the inner city, a brother was reported to be "shooting craps". This brother was unusually street smart, accustomed to interrogations. He talked in circles, totally exasperating the committee. He answered questions with a question, never incriminating himself. He was DF'd for lieing.

  I'll stop there. I may add some other cases later.

  tms
• 
  31

  How the Circuit Overseer Manipulates the Body of Elders

  by TMS in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the relationship between local elders and the circuit overseer has fluctuated over the years.

  in the sixties, .

  the circuit overseer simply appointed all the servants.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TMS

  Fanghorn:

  "Pretty sure I know who "Brother N" is and while I'll say he was a competent individual, he was also a jerk. He did know how to conduct himself around the heavy hitters which is probably what got him through this whole deal. I'll also say that the traits breed true."

  Your characterization fits. N's act may not have worked in other parts of the country. But in a small, southern state with many of the brotherhood humble, self-effacing by nature, N's authoritative posture frequently passed as genuine knowledge and competence. Some did snicker at the almost legendery shallowness & insincerity but tolerated it somewhat on the basis of "Jehovah using him." Some teenagers mocked him because of his frequent habit of asking you a question and walking off as you started a response. Another habit was to look at his watch if someone else tried to make a point.

  One of the quirks of JWism is how people like "Brother N" are like one of those inflatable punching dummies. They get knocked down and bounce right back up. Others get stymatized for life with one minor indiscretion.

  tms
• 
  31

  How the Circuit Overseer Manipulates the Body of Elders

  by TMS in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the relationship between local elders and the circuit overseer has fluctuated over the years.

  in the sixties, .

  the circuit overseer simply appointed all the servants.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TMS

  OntheWayOut,

  You've certainly filled in some of the gaps in my descriptions. I've seen the bullying you describe. Sometimes elders who disagree with the majority are asked to write a supplementary letter detailing their view of matters.

  Yes, I've seen circuit overseers take one quick look at a perfectly functional Kingdom Hall and mandate design changes the cost of which would build several third world Kingdom Halls.

  Years ago, when I dared to question a C.O. on something, a couple of the a** kisses you describe, approached me about "disrespect of a circuit overseer."

  tms
• 
  31

  How the Circuit Overseer Manipulates the Body of Elders

  by TMS in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the relationship between local elders and the circuit overseer has fluctuated over the years.

  in the sixties, .

  the circuit overseer simply appointed all the servants.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TMS

  Gregor: "So this bastard C.O. pushed through the re-appointment of this kisser of womenfolk?

  I suspect, Gregor, that his offenses may have been understated a bit.

  tms
• 
  31

  How the Circuit Overseer Manipulates the Body of Elders

  by TMS in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the relationship between local elders and the circuit overseer has fluctuated over the years.

  in the sixties, .

  the circuit overseer simply appointed all the servants.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TMS

  Oompa,

  I'm not sure that I understand your question exactly. Do you mind spoonfeeding it to this old geezer?

  Thanks,

  tms
• 
  31

  How the Circuit Overseer Manipulates the Body of Elders

  by TMS in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the relationship between local elders and the circuit overseer has fluctuated over the years.

  in the sixties, .

  the circuit overseer simply appointed all the servants.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TMS

  The relationship between local elders and the circuit overseer has fluctuated over the years. In the sixties,
  the circuit overseer simply appointed all the servants. His recommendations were even written before meeting
  with the servant body. He would share his recommendations with them at that time and sometimes solicit their
  comments. He might adjust his recommendations based on what the servants said, but it was still his call.

  In the early to mid-seventies with the introduction of the elder arrangement, the relationship changed. At one
  point the circuit overseer became "just another elder" with no more authority than the local men. This was
  during a time when many things were being relaxed including how disfellowshipped ones were treated. This
  perestroika was of short duration.

  Since the mid-seventies the format has been something like this. The local elders meet about a week before
  the scheduled circuit overseer's visit to consider all possible recommendations for congregation responsibility.
  Typically, the scriptural requirements for ministerial servant and elder are read and each brother is compared
  to those requirements. The elders firm up their recommendations and these are given to the circuit overseer
  at the start of his visit. He can now observe those recommended, work in field service with them, critique
  their meeting parts, etc. When the circuit man meets with the local elders, he gives his observations on the
  men they have recommended. Unless there is some blatant failing like low field service hours, he usually rubber
  stamps the local elder's choices.

  Now, let me give you an actual example of how a clever circuit overseer can circumvent these checks and balances
  and promote a man of his own choosing"

  A prominent elder in the capital city of Arkansas "stepped down" from his responsibilities in the mid-80's.
  Don't jump on me about the terminology "stepped down" because it was still used then to avoid the stigma of
  deletion. This former elder moved into our congregation, which already had a large body of elders, most seasoned
  men. Soon, an odd letter came from the elder's former congregation. It stated that he had formed an emotional
  attachment to his secretary, a young sister in our congregation. The relationship had resulted in "some kissing".
  His tormented conscience had moved him to resign his position, but they now felt he had recovered enough
  spiritually to be used any way we saw fit.

  In the pre-c.o. visit meeting, the body of elders considered this brother's situation carefully. We knew him well.
  We also had known the young sister all her life. We chose not to act hastily and recommend this brother.

  Fast forward to our meeting with the circuit overseer. He noticed our recommendations did not include Brother N.
  He listened carefully to our reservations and said he respected our position. He made us aware of his private visit
  with Brother N. He found him "utterly remorseful to the point of tears." He suggested we reconsider our non-recommendation.
  One older brother spoke up, wondering how such a quick reappointment would effect the young girl and her mother. The CO
  quickly took that bull by the horns. He asked the older brother if he would be willing to approach the young
  sister and her mother with the question: "Would it stumble you if Brother N. was appointed as an elder again?
  (I think he already knew the answer to that question.) The CO wanted to discuss this again after the Sunday
  meeting.

  As you might suspect, in our elder's meeting late Sunday, this brother was recommended somewhat reluctantly. The skillful
  circuit overseer had set us up for it, even making it seem our decision.

  Three weeks later, the appointment letter came back from Brooklyn. Brother N. was appointed an elder, but also City Overseer.
  Some time later, he was also appointed Assembly Overseer and Chairman of the Hospital Liaison.

  tms
• 
  25

  A deflating talk with my brother re: anti-witnessing,,,,thoughts?

  by smellsgood in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  **edited to say, my brother is not a jw, never has been, nor have any of my family.

  i'm referring to jw's i don't know who came to the door finally (i posted about it a couple weeks ago in personal experiences) i was just talking to him about it because he got word of it and doesn't like the idea of it** .

  talking to my brother today, he doesn't like the idea of me getting involved debating with jw's (i've done this plenty, just not in person:).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TMS

  TMS, I have read this board for five years, read COC, read everything on freeminds, jwfacts, jwfiles, all the quotes on quotes when it was up....I have debated lifelong JW's for an entire year online, I may not know everything, and I certainly would never say I know what it is to be a JW, but I think I can say with utmost confidence, I am one hundred times informed as a practicing Witness about their religion. I am also extremely informed and knowledgeable about cults in general. It has been an area of intense interest and study for me.
  
  I know there are gaps because of my non-experience, this board has been the biggest help in that area. I can read others experiences, and I have. I think my greatest hope is my passion for it.
  
  I can understand why you would think that though ;)

  Well, SG, I certainly wish you well. You have the ammunition. But that arsenal will simply bounce off the average JW. I've had a few low-voltage conversations with JW's where they have bared their private concerns. It's such a delicate operation to reinforce that private doubt with your own experience. It is altogether too easy to provide more information than necessary. You may not be regarded as an apostate in the strictest sense, but a unloading a barrage of negatives will certainly spook the victim you're trying to free.

  Please keep us informed.

  tms