Posts by Saintbertholdt

70

If you could name the theme of an assembly what would it be???

by karter in

jw
friends

divine boredom.

A Judicial experience.

by John Aquila in

when i was an elder in the 80s, a 16 year old baptized jw girl had confessed that at school during lunch a boy kissed her and touched her privates over her dress.

the circuit overseer was in town and we told him of the situation and he called the society and then told us that mother said we were not allowed to conduct the funeral in the kingdom hall or anywhere else with the threat of removing us and being dealt with judicially if we disobeyed.

the mother who is about 79 years old comes once a year to talk to my mom about the situation.

Saintbertholdt

Hi John,

The young girl and her families story upset me quite a bit.

From this account it is clear how alone and isolated Jehovah's Witnesses who experience trouble actually are and how the organization can rain devastation on an already tragic situation.

My consolation and prediction (circa 2100): No one will attend the Watchtowers funeral. No one will care that it died. Good riddance.

34

Evolutionists Who Are Against Darwinism

by Perry in

this is a nice list of evolutionary scientists and their quotes regarding the impossibility of naturalism or materialism being able to account for life as it is observed :.

evolutionists against darwinism.

most, while sympathetic and respectful of their more committed colleagues, are disparaged as morons for not carrying the materialism banner as a religion, as a matter of faith.

Saintbertholdt

Perry on your list is Immanuel Velikovsky...Velikovsky.

How did Francis Crick end up on the list? Panspermia is something that even Richard Dawkins contemplates.

Here's a Crick quote affirming his belief in evolution and pointing out that evolutionary arguments should be used cautiously UNLESS the mechanisms under study are well understood:

"Biologists must constantly keep in mind that what they see was not designed, but rather evolved. It might be thought, therefore, that evolutionary arguments would play a large part in guiding biological research, but this is far from the case. It is difficult enough to study what is happening now. To figure out exactly what happened in evolution is even more difficult. Thus evolutionary achievements can be used as hints to suggest possible lines of research, but it is highly dangerous to trust them too much. It is all too easy to make mistaken inferences unless the process involved is already very well understood." - from What Mad pursuit 1988

BTW these words were written 27 years ago and the field of Paleogenetics was just four years old. How things have progressed.

I've lost interest in the rest of the list because its just quote mining.

I do not understand why creationists have linked the existence of God with the process of evolution?

Oh wait...those first eleven chapters of Genesis really have a rather myopic view of how things came to be. It really gives creationists no wiggle room at all... unless you start to view it as allegory.

21

Theory of Evolution and humanity are moving in parallel, and in opposite direction too!

by iconoclastic in

proponents of evolution theory was comfortable with their easiest method of induction that says something like this: i saw a blind man in the us, then in russia, then in australian, then in africa ..., hence all men are blind.

yet proofs are abundant for the decline (opposite of evolution) we experience globally!.

1) most humans declined into greed, the result of which is climate change which has the potential to wipe out all life from the earth.

Saintbertholdt

Hi Angel,

1... This was ok while we were living in small groups. This does not work well when we have to feed millions. We quickly saw the benefit of raising and growing our own food. However, some noticed that they could manipulate other to feed them instead of having to hunt themselves.

Life was exceptionally hard in past ages and so greed was essential. But I was actually just referring to what has been happening since the middle of the 20th century up until now. Food abundance is increasing due to the 'Green revolution'. When I refer to greed I am specifically referring to over abundance in developed countries (although increases are even happening in developing countries). Anthropomorphic climate change is green house gas driven which is by far caused by the west which is due to an over demand of everything (due to our evolutionary heritage which does not know how to deal with abundance). Which I don't even think is particularly wrong as long as you pay the true value of a product. For example: Pumping out spring water at cents a kiloliter to make a carbonated beverage does not mean that the actual value of the spring water is just cents a kiloliter. We are getting luxury products at a vastly discounted price which means we are borrowing from the future.

2) True, but I believe that his prediction has worked for the current situation. I am not sure if he made any further predictions, but could it be said that the same ability to communicate will eventually brings us back together? May be the collective human race is acting like when you meet a new friend. We are now at a stage of misunderstanding each other because this ability to communicate has just brought us together. May be this same ability will finally help us settle our differences and end up bringing us closer.

I think it just means we get to shop for the groups we belong to and we can pick more specific groups over time. For example: In the 1980's JW apostates were pretty much isolated and today here we all are on the internet. Never before have apostates and ex-JW's had the opportunity to mingle so freely because communication barriers have been removed. That's the gist of Tofflers thesis (as you probably know): What happens when we can all talk to each other? And that's the future. For example: I suspect as the forum grows new sub groups will be formed in the future. We will still may be a part of the bigger ex-JW community but would split off into our smaller groups in general. The ex-JW community already has a major division: Religious ex-JW's and atheist/agnostic ex-JW's. The battle lines are already drawn :) Oh and Toffler has a final prediction: Everything is going to be ok. (Your last comment on point 2)

4) Is difficult at this stage to tell if decease is winning the battle. We may have won over many of them but we don't know the long term effects.

I think humanity has a chance of beating devastating infectious disease. For example: Polio. The only reason polio still exists in developing countries is because (as you know) vaccination is a plot by the US to make their children sterile. Thus social intervention and not technology is mostly the barrier.

Another quick stat:

5) My grandfather use to say how screwed up the world was getting and I could not understand what he was talking about. I am now beginning to have the same feeling but I can not help and see that, if he thought the world was bad in the 80's, that he would be totally outraged by the world of today. I also see from history that there are some things in which we have improved, in a way, not absolute. We don't sacrifice humans in an altar anymore, but we do sacrifice them in the name of other things by means of war and hunger. Could it by that here we also grow in waves?

Yep yep. These kids with their new fangled phones and face tubes. Their noses always in the things and you can't even have a conversation without them peeping at their little screens. In my day I could still understand music. Songs had a beat and a tune and lyrics. Nowadays its just wub wub wub, wheeeeeeee, haaaaaaaaaaa and a smurf singing backwards. Oh and how do you feed a horse in Minecraft? What the hell is a minecraft?

"Could it by that here we also grow in waves?"

Possibly. Whats the fourth wave I wonder?

83

What woke you up?

by Israel Ricky Gonzales in

in march of 2014, i was a very active jw, a ministerial servant, gave a public talk, was an attendant for the memorial, and one of 4 cleaning captains for an international convention of 40,000+ attendees.

so what woke me up?

an innocent comment from a co-worker about the candice conti court case rang a bell that could not be unrung.

Saintbertholdt

In 2004 I went on holiday with my girlfriend and my in-laws to be. (My girlfriends father was a well respected elder)

Well to make a long story short, I made her pregnant and refused to marry her which made it all end badly.

...just kidding.

What actually happened was that I took a book with me to read during the holiday. It was Matt Ridley's Genome.

When I finished the book I became very quiet and contemplative because I was now an evolutionist.

The beginning of the end but also the end of the beginning.

21

Theory of Evolution and humanity are moving in parallel, and in opposite direction too!

by iconoclastic in

proponents of evolution theory was comfortable with their easiest method of induction that says something like this: i saw a blind man in the us, then in russia, then in australian, then in africa ..., hence all men are blind.

yet proofs are abundant for the decline (opposite of evolution) we experience globally!.

1) most humans declined into greed, the result of which is climate change which has the potential to wipe out all life from the earth.

Saintbertholdt

1) Most humans declined into greed, the result of which is climate change which has the potential to wipe out all life from the earth. July 2015 was the hottest month in recorded history.(http://www.cbsnews.com/news/july-2015-was-hottest-month-on-record-globally/) Global recession (another effect of greed) that started in 2008 is now all set to assume the size of a global tornado!

Humans have adapted to abundance, the result of which is short sighted greed. Regarding anthropomorphic climate change: Even if we manage to wipe ourselves out entirely, evolution will continue. We would be arrogant to think we can extinguish all life on earth. Its just humans who are going away if we are irresponsible. The planet itself is doing just fine.

2) Religions (from religare, “reunite”) declined into divisiveness!

Alvin Toffler predicted this in the 1960's. An information culture (Where everyone can speak to everyone) makes smaller and smaller sub groups (divisions) possible. For example: Christianity sub group:Protestants - sub group: Adventists sub group: Jehovah's Witnesses sub group: ex Jehovah's Witnesses etc. etc. etc. until in 2034 you end up with Homosexual ex-Jehovah's Witnesses who believe in the invisible parousia of Marvel's Thanos.

3) When people were told to sacrifice the beast called ego, they declined into the easier option of sacrificing a literal animal (followed by eating its flesh too)

I thought Yahweh insisted on a blood sacrifice?

Also sacrifice of the ego leads to mindlessly dangerous people. See the Manson Family.

4) Human body too is on the reverse gear with deadly disease being on the increase

Two weeks ago it was announced that the Ebola vaccine is 100% effective in trials. Who knew?

Notice a trend?

5) Bible correctly foretold a global moral decline (the very opposite of evolution) in 2 Timothy 3:1-5

Pick a human civilization or age and you will see the same characteristics of what 2 Timothy 3:1-5 is describing.

The same generalized type of predictions you can get in any glossy magazine with an astrology page.

34

FAVORITE DRINK....

by brandnew in

jw
friends

me personally.....i think....if it was meant to be mixed ...it would come in the bottle that way.. that said...bacardi gold.

Saintbertholdt

Vodka. I differ with _Morpheus in that my favorite is the cheapest bottle I can find, drunk neat until I am fully inebriated. I'll be blunt, I only drink for effect.

52

Court seizes over one million Jehovah's Witnesses brochures brought into Russia

by StarTrekAngel in

http://red.theworldnewsmedia.org/index.php/en/forum-home-page/jehovah-s-witnesses/93-court-seizes-over-one-million-jehovah-s-witnesses-brochures-brought-into-russia

Saintbertholdt

And....you REALLY shoudn't tell me what I REALLY should or should not think.

Yes I can. What you decide to do with the information is YOUR business.

The state based their decision on the results of the detailed and comprehensive report submitted by these experts:

In 1600 Giordano Bruno was brought made grand cosmological claims. Government experts were consulted at his trial and he was eventually burned at the stake. The west has been through this before.

In a world where the Russian idea of government takes hold, human development will once again be delayed.

52

Court seizes over one million Jehovah's Witnesses brochures brought into Russia

by StarTrekAngel in

http://red.theworldnewsmedia.org/index.php/en/forum-home-page/jehovah-s-witnesses/93-court-seizes-over-one-million-jehovah-s-witnesses-brochures-brought-into-russia

Saintbertholdt

I oppose institutions that masquerade as a religion when they are only a business.

Well that is your opinion. And I defend your right to that opinion, but I disagree with it. By your definition you could include the Catholic church.

The JW religion is the epitome of deceit.

Scientology is much worse.

If governments start banning organizations that have an unpopular view, you end up with only the majority opinion that will be tolerated. For example: Iran and most other Islamic states. Russia is also cracking down on homosexuality and even Herbalife.

We should not be scared of ideas. Remember this is exactly how the Watchtower feels regarding sites like these. If they were in the majority this site would be offline.

I defend their right in spite of them but not because of them.

52

Court seizes over one million Jehovah's Witnesses brochures brought into Russia

by StarTrekAngel in

http://red.theworldnewsmedia.org/index.php/en/forum-home-page/jehovah-s-witnesses/93-court-seizes-over-one-million-jehovah-s-witnesses-brochures-brought-into-russia

Saintbertholdt

Godzoo
Does that apply everywhere without restriction? Would you approve of an organised group coming and setting up a center right next to where you live, or enter into your home or the school of your children, or flood your country or community like swarming locusts to promote their ideas however bizarre, extreme and anti-social into your kids minds who will will then one day be taught and encouraged to shun you and then defend their right to do so? Really?

You are either a libertarian or you are not. You either believe in the market place of ideas or you do not. When it comes to Jehovah's Witnesses I believe they should have the right to knock on my door and offer me literature... why? Because one day its not the JW's but the ACLU knocking on my door about unlawful detainment. The JW idea will die out by itself because the ideas are bad. I still want to hear their ideas though to make my own choice. I do not need my government to make that choice for me.

Orphancrow:
I agree.
In October 2000, several Russian experts presented their reports to a Russian court. The Russian experts had done a comprehensive examination of the Jehovah's Witness literature.

You REALLY don't want the state to decide which literature is appropriate for you or not.

Godzoo and Orphancrow, if you love freedom of speech you should reconsider your position.