Posts by Saintbertholdt

449

Labeling one self "Atheist" is Unscientific

by LAWHFol in

i have not meet all atheists, and it would be foolish for me to assume that all atheists, share the same prototypical view points.

i am inclined to feel that this classifies the views of a large percentage of atheists.

"atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.

You can't prove the non existence of fairies, if that is what you are asking.

That is a correct statement.

Science deals with proving and disproving theories and hypothesis through evidence. And I don't think fairies qualify to be dealt with scientifically. Have some scientific paper or study been done about them? Since most don't believe in them it would be a waste of time.

Since most don't believe in them

1. So how did belief enter science?

2. How did scientists get to that belief?

449

Labeling one self "Atheist" is Unscientific

by LAWHFol in

i have not meet all atheists, and it would be foolish for me to assume that all atheists, share the same prototypical view points.

i am inclined to feel that this classifies the views of a large percentage of atheists.

"atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.

_Morpheus,

In fact, most self identified athiests that i have come across, myself included, fall into a catagory of "not currently believing in god but willing to accept evidance of him should some presented".

Yes, even the most hardened atheists like Dawkins have stated that if there was sufficient evidence, they would reconsider their opinions.

449

Labeling one self "Atheist" is Unscientific

by LAWHFol in

i have not meet all atheists, and it would be foolish for me to assume that all atheists, share the same prototypical view points.

i am inclined to feel that this classifies the views of a large percentage of atheists.

"atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.

Its a good exercise, maybe a cord is struck somewhere for some, but mostly its as i described.
To me the question I consider more often these days is the following: How is atheism influencing Christianity in the 21st century?

C0ntr013r

I want to restart this issue with you and ask you a question. This question requires a basic explanation before it is asked and is actually a recap of my original argument:

In human history there are many stories about fairies. Some are stories, some are legends, some are related to the practice of magic. These stories, myths and legends go back centuries. So in history there have been many people that have believed in fairies and even today in esoteric culture some people still do. Fairies purportedly have little wings and they seem to love flowers. So postulating that fairies may in fact pollinate plants is plausible. But it is also an extraordinary claim. For that claim to be true one would expect some very compelling evidence, but it is lacking. So the question is this:

1.On what basis can science dismiss fairies, or is stating that fairies don't exist unscientific?

cappytan

The problem isn't a lack of evidence full stop. The problem is a lack of evidence where there should be evidence.

Here's my mantra: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

449

Labeling one self "Atheist" is Unscientific

by LAWHFol in

i have not meet all atheists, and it would be foolish for me to assume that all atheists, share the same prototypical view points.

i am inclined to feel that this classifies the views of a large percentage of atheists.

"atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.

Saintbertholdt

_Morpheus10 hours ago

Annnnd i predict this thread will go off the rails in 5.....4.......3.......2.....

Prophet.

449

Labeling one self "Atheist" is Unscientific

by LAWHFol in

i have not meet all atheists, and it would be foolish for me to assume that all atheists, share the same prototypical view points.

i am inclined to feel that this classifies the views of a large percentage of atheists.

"atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.

Saintbertholdt

I simply say that there are mathematical models which are not considered evidence within themselves.

Exactly. The reason being a model has to correspond to physical observation. So how does it become evidence? Because it can now make predictions which correspond to experiment and observation.

449

Labeling one self "Atheist" is Unscientific

by LAWHFol in

i have not meet all atheists, and it would be foolish for me to assume that all atheists, share the same prototypical view points.

i am inclined to feel that this classifies the views of a large percentage of atheists.

"atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.

Saintbertholdt

"I reject the idea that every mathematical model is proof of that model."

That is why I used the word "suggest". Mathematics suggests a way the universe could work. It IS a proof IF it is corroborated by observation. WHY? Because it can now make PREDICTIONS. This is not controversial.

If you merely meant "suggest", what is "obvious proof" doing in this context?

Mathematics suggests a way the universe could work. It IS a proof IF it is corroborated by observation. What the mathematics now allow you to do is to make PREDICTIONS. This is not controversial.

It is not really a contested area but ill be happy to provide other sources.

http://global.britannica.com/topic/atheism

Remedial: You're still doing it wrong. You don't quote an encyclopedia. You quote the source within the Article.

Sure, you don't have to show that such a mathematical multiverse model exist, to my knowledge it does not.

Yawn. Please see: The Multiverse Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics - Raphael Bousso, Leonard Susskind

I assume you know who Susskind is? According to Susskind's hypothesis EVERY mathematical string theory model has a multiverse implication. But guess what: Its still just mathematical modelling. Only when observation corresponds to the correct model will predictions be viewed as being valid. Then that model will become a part of the body of scientific evidence.

Thanks for the derail.

449

Labeling one self "Atheist" is Unscientific

by LAWHFol in

i have not meet all atheists, and it would be foolish for me to assume that all atheists, share the same prototypical view points.

i am inclined to feel that this classifies the views of a large percentage of atheists.

"atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.

Saintbertholdt

C0ntr013r,

You clearly don't understand the word "proof" means or you mean something different that me. To me "proof" isevidence and that must be observable, testable, measurable, repeatable and falsifiable.

Not at all. That is why it is called a "mathematical proof". Example: When Einstein suggested special relativity in 1905 it was a revelation. The paper gained acceptance based upon the mathematics alone HOWEVER Einstein still had to wait for 1919 until Arthur Eddington verified it with the eclipse experiment. With no proof special relativity would have been discarded over time.

You should have noted that I used the word "suggest". If you are a scientist this term should be well known to you and what it implies. You are either NOT versed in scientific/mathematical literature or you are constructing a straw man. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and regard our exchange as remedial. Please see: How to Prove It A Structured Approach - Daniel J Velleman

Papers for mathematical multiverses and unified theories abound. This is not controversial and multiverse and unified theory discussions are derailing this thread.

Also please don't quote Wikipedia as an authoritative reference.

449

Labeling one self "Atheist" is Unscientific

by LAWHFol in

i have not meet all atheists, and it would be foolish for me to assume that all atheists, share the same prototypical view points.

i am inclined to feel that this classifies the views of a large percentage of atheists.

"atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.

Saintbertholdt

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

By the way, according to this mantra - give me one practical example where this has worked.

449

Labeling one self "Atheist" is Unscientific

by LAWHFol in

i have not meet all atheists, and it would be foolish for me to assume that all atheists, share the same prototypical view points.

i am inclined to feel that this classifies the views of a large percentage of atheists.

"atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.

Saintbertholdt

There is no proof of a Multiverse, and how could there be? If there are other universes outside of our own, how would we know about it? Still it is a thought entertained in science and in some of our models.

1. Wrong there is obvious proof. There are mathematical models that may suggest a multiverse. Therefore it is worth investigation. HOWEVER the only way any of these models would be accepted would be through experiment. Until then none will be accepted.

2. There are ALSO tens of mathematical models that suggest a unified theory. So there is mathematical evidence for these theories which merit investigation. HOWEVER the only way any mathematical model will be accepted will be through experiment and observation.

3. There is no mathematical model as yet that suggests God. So why would it merit investigation?

I re-iterate: Atheism is scientific.

449

Labeling one self "Atheist" is Unscientific

by LAWHFol in

i have not meet all atheists, and it would be foolish for me to assume that all atheists, share the same prototypical view points.

i am inclined to feel that this classifies the views of a large percentage of atheists.

"atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities.

Saintbertholdt

Atheism is in regard to belief, not fact nor science.

Yes like the belief that fairies don't exist. One cannot disprove that fairies don't exist.

So why aren't scientific papers written about fairies? (Except in relation to anthropology)

The fact is that the faith and belief that fairies do not exist transfers into scientific thought and action.

Lack of evidence automatically discards a hypothesis in science.

In science there is ONE measure: Experiment!