Posts by prologos

16

PONDER THAT sometime in the still hours before sunrise.....

by Terry in

jehovah's witnesses are taught that they are engaged in a life-saving work.

in the louvre is a special vault with 15 miles of shelves containing medical treatises, cures, treatments, speculations, procedures from time immemorial.

now the fascinating aspect of all these state-of-the-art manuals and documents is that they are scientifically bogus!.

prologos

james wood " alchemy" good point. good topic. but alchemist were secretive. Chemistry, nuclear physics was not their goal. so how will advanced science in the religious, or "weltanschauung" (to use Einstein' term) sense come out our dicussions here, often not rising above sematics, the petty? appreciate all yor thoughts.

50

Einstein and Religion - with considerations of "Human Free Will"

by james_woods in

ok, here is a small first step toward putting together a thread on this subject.

the problem i had in getting started was how complicated the topic is - how to get it into an understandable form suitable for a discussion thread.

first - einstein was, of course, jewish.

prologos

Einstein lived in very turbulent times on a continent that nearly self-destructed. His views on matters human, religious must have shifted. that is the interesting part. Much of his work was done with an understanding of a creator, " the absolutely Old One" who would be sorry if his (Einsteins) theories would be wrong.

He felt that god should have intervened in the slaughter of WW1 when asking: "Where IS Jehovah" ?* He might have later concluded that it was all to big a disaster to have come from mans' free will alone. A wealthy and educated Jewish gentlemen that employed me, said to me once about Hitler: " he could not help doing it, we can not really blame him, it was an unavoidable development, he was genetically predestined to do it.

so an expert on physics might be swayed by emotion on other matters. Einsteins' comment on the immortal Soul question:" ---come on" or to that effect, hard to translate.

He might have felt that HE, Einstein was selected, had a unique destiny, a direct line into Gods mind, wrestling with God like Jacob, but He could not have believed I think ALL is predestined, in the recall of all my reading. * referenced on beabeorean.com from the book; Einstein in Berlin.

45

If there is a creator, will an expanding universe ever become bigger than he?

by prologos in

the bible has expressions like: "--god walked in the garden at the breezy part of the day--" .

but more realisticly, speaking in today's lingo:.

if, as accepted by consensus, the universe was "smaller" in the past, expanding out of a zero size singularity, it was "smaller" than the "creator"* at that point in time.

prologos

"JOE" GRUNDY sounds like a Cangaroo. here is the jump, mental leapfrog you helped me take in this model of the pre-creation cosmos.

Substitute please, as you might want to: "CREATOR" for "unsymmetrical random vaccuum fluctuation" which a few believe could give rise to an energy,space , matter, time universe. ---now:

Before that spontaneous Big Bang there was this fluctuation of the vaccuum. but a fluctuation is a function of time, even TIME squared, to the second power, because its an acceleration + and - . So there must have been Time before the big bang no matter how you slice it. So there was time, eternal not moving prior to CREATION or random appearance. You win either way.

GLADIATOR: thank you for the point. "Events happen at the same time here and 14 billion ly away." you are right. But now the signal, say of a super nova starts travelling our way at "c" from that far away. The creator ( or the mental construct we have here) is there too, because he must-- as was agreed to by a few posters -- be greater than his creation. He would have that knowledge in all his being. which extends into our neighborhood. He could now "Predict" to us that in 14 000 million years from now we will see a supernova in xyz direction. But that would not be a "prediction" for him, just a description of facts already unalterable history there. it would be a prediction for us, or be called a true prophecy here. what the model of the pre-creation cosmos that I proposed on beabeorean.com implies, is that God is already in the future. because our universe works at the speed of light, but he is instantaneously knowledgeable in his extended eternal beeing, he can just as be a spectator, but could tell us the outcome, because we can not see it yet, but he has. try to get the picture of us moving through time-space with a speed limit posted at"c", but faster planes overhead observing, seeing befor we are aware of it. no events fore-ordained. This post is really for "Does the fore knowlededge of God means events are predestined" but one is related to the other.

SATANUS your divine F--arfetched A--romatic R--ear T--hermal post is a winner for you afterall. Cosmologists' colorful nomenclature does it : To explain the almost even matter- distribution of the cosmos, the idea was adopted to have the universe or space undergo an early ueber-c expansion. They named that event:

INFLATION. its apparent that this word has the same root as FLATLUence. You win! this scirmish, but will you win the war? what IS the war? A truism from a book I read a lot: Eph 5:4.

SIZEMIC: yes, if "god exists only in the minds of men/or woman". But would that be true of the concept, the reality of a CREATOR? how to you perform the mental gymnastics to come up with a fait accompli, Time,energy, space, matter and its interplay in that order, while dismissing the possibility of Creation?. particularly if you are involved in any kind of work, design, building, maintenance.? thank you for that stimulus. peace and blessings.

45

If there is a creator, will an expanding universe ever become bigger than he?

by prologos in

the bible has expressions like: "--god walked in the garden at the breezy part of the day--" .

but more realisticly, speaking in today's lingo:.

if, as accepted by consensus, the universe was "smaller" in the past, expanding out of a zero size singularity, it was "smaller" than the "creator"* at that point in time.

prologos

CYBER JESUS, ENTIRELY POSSPLE, of course my hypothesus is flawed, thats why I like to listen to you to get it clearer but it has some merit. For one it got you thinking too. some even stinking too.

ON Eternal time vs Spacetime or Timespace: The time component of the universe is the same as the time that always was. as written a day ago, Eternal time existed forever and will exist into the future. eternal time does not flow. Our time does not flow either, we are flowing through it. When you'all talk about time you are really thinking only MOVEMENT through time. OUR only ExPERIENCE of time is a one way movement. But thats OUR movement, not the movement of time. EP you said: "Time and space are the same thing" exactly, thats why we not only move through space, BUT ALWAYS ALSO MOVE THROUGH TIME. we are NOT stationary and space moves around us! neither are we stationary and time moves away from us.! That kind of thinking is pre-Copernican, pre-Keppler.

To loosely quote Galileo : "The earth, with us on it "Moves still" through space and time or timespace. because:

Before space there was Time, eternal time. "Gods" domain. try to think about it with out -of- the- box clarity. and re-read the posts, ALL good and profound. blessings.

45

If there is a creator, will an expanding universe ever become bigger than he?

by prologos in

the bible has expressions like: "--god walked in the garden at the breezy part of the day--" .

but more realisticly, speaking in today's lingo:.

if, as accepted by consensus, the universe was "smaller" in the past, expanding out of a zero size singularity, it was "smaller" than the "creator"* at that point in time.

prologos

SATANUS with due respect : the plasma/gas of the early universe was the result of GOD using some of his energy to create matter which is a gas/ plasma at extreme temperatures and pressures. . You have the choice to have that come out his mouth, like " the breath of life"* or as a stench of decay. What due you think is appropriate? --Usually , when we speak, the exhaling # can also produces intelligent sounds, accoustics. like in "--God said and it was--"*. But there are sounds as the result of escaping methane too. So are you trying to provoke an instant reaction? dont hold your breath, or the natural gas. have peace. *quoted from a fable, not to be taken litterally. #our exhaled air has still most of the oxigen, therefore can be used for mouth to mouth rescucitation unlike the combustible byproduct of digestion.

45

If there is a creator, will an expanding universe ever become bigger than he?

by prologos in

the bible has expressions like: "--god walked in the garden at the breezy part of the day--" .

but more realisticly, speaking in today's lingo:.

if, as accepted by consensus, the universe was "smaller" in the past, expanding out of a zero size singularity, it was "smaller" than the "creator"* at that point in time.

prologos

Thank you all for helping me learn, not to be had the KH. my reaction to your questions.

JOE GRUNDY--: "we dont"( agree that there is a creator). yes, but for the purpose of this discussion, we should agree on these a-priori premises: That There is a universe; it did not make itself, it is created, therefore:

there must be a CREATOR , (at least for the purpose of this discussion), then:

he must predate his creation,- he is old,- has age,-- to have age, you must have time, - if you are really old, (like in eternal), you must have a lot, unlimited, eternal time.-- so there must be

Time that was before the creation of anything, particularly of the 3 other dimensions in the Universe. (not to mention other spirit persons).

ETIRELY POSSIBLE---: THis etrnal time is not a MOVING entity, rolling, spooling off the edge of eternity so to speak.

Think of the eternal God (we agreed on) existing and totally filling Time from eternity to eternity. (well, forget about the ends)

Einstein wrote about the spacetimestartpoint. In his working language you can make endless words. to the point:

at the creation of the universe this stationary and eternal time became entwined with the 3 space dimensions of the material world.- spacetime was started.

This was an expanding creation, having a beginning point in the eternal time and moving out of the singularity into time, expanding space with it. We can really see it stretching, as the pictures arrives now into our telescopes.

Nothing happens at once, or in the same place, because we are MOVING through TIME, in the same way that we are MOVING through SPACE . as we move through space, up down sideways, we also move through time. you can see it happening, take a drive, watch the odometer, the clock.

Now think of the imaginary creator, older, therefore bigger in time than the universe as a person, spiritual, with senses, with knowledge that is all pervasive in his being. Not like us, where nerve-impulses do only 200 feet per second.

Any information that such an eternal God would pick up would be perceived by him, but him being eternal, that information is available eternally, always, everywhere by him already.

but that does not mean that it is availabale to us, unless he would let us know. and the story of him walking, talking might not be, is unlikely one of those communications.

So God new of an event 14 billion years AGO , 14 billion light years AWAY instantly, (He was there) we will know about it only 14 billion years later. thats why he can make predictions to us about and in our future.

Time always was. --when we are conceived we START MOVING THROUGH TIME, by age 5 we are aware of it.bedtime again.

GLADIATOR: yes, vibrations, is is said that "God said" acoustics,vibrations, another topic, perhaps at the heart of the bode law of planetary distances and the good relations with my wife.

MR.FREEZE: as the universe expands it never reaches eternity. it is said to be accelerating perhaps postponing forever the backward move into the past. why speculate? there is no evidence of it, whereas what we talked about so far can be inferred from observations and its ramifications. enjoy reality instead. good vibes. thank you and blessings.

159

Believers, do you believe in evolution?

by everchangingworld in

after leaving, i still couldn't wrap my head around evolution (after the years of seing "intelligent design" in everything around me).. there's a series of videos that give a good intro to evolution and critical thinking.

they've probably been posted here before, but, for any new members, these are worth watching.. evolution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdddbyilel0.

critical thinking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6olpl5p0fmg.

prologos

well all, how about thinking of the "soul" not in a mythical way but what evolution would turn out? in other words:

soul like in PSYCHEE dealt with in psychology, psychiatry, neuroscience, brain function studies?

There must have been in our past a brain-neuron-synaps development that was so huge, compared to the past, that the id, consciousness, contemplation was becoming a joy, a mental spark that lifted humans thinking way above the utilitarian brainfunctions of the past.

I believe that this was a divine, created step. the metaphor being "Adam & EVE". Like the

MIND in the brain, there is the SOUL in the brain. starve the brain, and the mind, the soul are gone too. too bad, but gone.* I was already "gone" for a day after a heart attack. not brain dead but unconscious, the" soul" in hiatus.

so: if God used evolution as a tool, then the psiche is a great brain- development that we benefit from. peace of mind and soul to you'all. * worse yet with dementia, alsheimers, when memory, the supposed carrier of all our sins in the mystical soul myth, is gone with the destroyed brain structure.

10

Bible from God but not Adam not Literal?

by brokethechain in

i hear some people believe that the bible is from god but because of science and archeology know that there was no global flood and that the first humans go much further back than 6,000 years.

how do you (they) reconcile the geneologies (in number/matthew/luke)?.

prologos

or: read posted satire on "Obama wants to get Curiosity secret right away"

45

If there is a creator, will an expanding universe ever become bigger than he?

by prologos in

the bible has expressions like: "--god walked in the garden at the breezy part of the day--" .

but more realisticly, speaking in today's lingo:.

if, as accepted by consensus, the universe was "smaller" in the past, expanding out of a zero size singularity, it was "smaller" than the "creator"* at that point in time.

prologos

Cold Steel: wow! I hope you can be still reheated and continue to be mallable. You wrote that the questions was "about God's NATURE. yes but more specifically as it relates to known facts, the expanding Universe and its and movement into future time. " being made in Gods' image" was a term in a fable. engineering backward we think that GOD somehow is an image of us, thats where the "hands" idea comes from. It appears many people have an image of God in their minds that shows him too small. read the posts above, he extends in TIME, therefore in Equivalent but spiritual EXTENT, beyond the 50 billion light years that the material universe might encompass. He is understood to be eternal therefore limitless.

The idea of other universes is pure speculation. unnessesary, we have our plates full to digest what is before us here. Good point about

PRADISE, Hawaii. You watched the surfers? Why did you not GO surfing? you would have stayed forever, always looking for the perfect wave. its my favored sport. its like life. what is life?

Life is a particular way to use ENERGY. It is traveling THROUGH time, eathly, now, it has a beginning and end. it is glorious. Surfing: it is a special way to use energy to go along. A ride is short and sweet like life. You get on the wave, you travel along using the energy, it is moving along like us in time, and it peters out and you sink back into the low level. also:

A wave is like us travelling through time. The water in the ocean does not move. its the Wave energy that moves. time does not move, we are moving through time, leaving hardly a ripple. It is only when the wave breaks, becomes a bore, see tsunami, that the trouble starts. so: Jehovah is not a surfer, we are. but his son is reported to have walked on water. but in a later wt illustration it really looked more like surfing. can anyone of you capable ones, blondi, New chapter find that and post it please?. No faith involved here only a long board. find as many connections between the real and the spiritual. peace.

45

If there is a creator, will an expanding universe ever become bigger than he?

by prologos in

the bible has expressions like: "--god walked in the garden at the breezy part of the day--" .

but more realisticly, speaking in today's lingo:.

if, as accepted by consensus, the universe was "smaller" in the past, expanding out of a zero size singularity, it was "smaller" than the "creator"* at that point in time.

prologos

thank you'all. EP: am glad you picked up on the Hebr. 3:4 comparison. You and God both build houses, you both are builders. You wrote: --build house for yourself--, he build his for his guests for as Christ Alone pointed out above, 1King 8:27 rules out him dwelling there himself. Another thing you mentioned in your question is the time you spend before you moved into your house. So, you have in common with God that you shared TIME with him. He was in eternal time eternally before the universe (our house)was build , and he will be, no! is already! in time eternally in the future when the universe will be gone, or very very old.

CHRIST ALONE: hard work to pull Physics and Theology together, Your good points: The universe will never outgrow God.

you wrote "where did he live?" He lived, still does in TIME, eternal time. We live in time too, passing time. hence: TEMPORARELY. from french: Le temps .

Joe Grundy: "where did he live" : in eternal TIME. its the other dimension we feel, but dont understand Acts 1:7. its super. About the expansion: light reaches us now that has travelled 14 billion years in time. the source has moved away from us since then, so it might be already another 14 billion light years away from us right now. so it way below the horizon (the universe is curved too. )

CANT LEAVE. Gender must be your hobbyhorse, its almost off topic. "why gender with God?" you ask, here is my take:

all spirits except the Creator himself were created directly, a-sexually, but not cloned. why only MALE spirits? because the female has reproduction, birthing written all over her. "mother of all living" Gen 3:20. So, not only are ladies more intelligent, but have the greatest gift, that did apparently not exist in the spirit realm, namely bringing new life, or at least OFFSPRING, with new minds into the world and nurturing it. Only if you want to lower yourself to male status would you resent God being called HE. it would be inappropriate to call him female, because of the way nature works. so be at peace with yourself. you are not a failed man.

SAT ANUS. I thought about it again. I thought I had answered you already by referring to the other topic: "blasting the KH chair". where I SAT on my ANUS. so we are talking here about a lot of hot air, a by-product of metabloism, a feature of organic life, life its origin divine, not chemical, not "way off topic". So with a name like SAT-ANUS its natural I guess to think about natural gas first.. shalom.