TheStar

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Posts by TheStar

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  31

  New to the board

  by PointBlank in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been lurking for a few days, trying to get a feel for the board.

  h2o used to be my regular hangout.

  boy, has that place changed.

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  TheStar

  Welcome to the family Linda!
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  185

  Typical JW Apologist

  by TheStar in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .

  do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.

  yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.

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  TheStar

  Hector,

  The only point you have made is that you have blinders on.

  Once again you fail to address the issue at hand, that being that the society's many watchtower articles on the issue of 1975 have strong wording that would lead any JW to believe Armageddon would come in 1975. The society, the GB are the ones that instigated that not the brothers as you and your cronies would like others to believe.

  You seem to have tunnel vision but I don't blame you as they have conditioned you to look at things with blinders on.

  While I have to acknowledge that the statements which support your understanding of the matter are there, you must also acknowledge that the statements which support my conclusions on the matter are also there.

  Being that this is so, I come to the following conclusion about what the society was doing in writing this way, that is covering their backs for whatever would really happen in 1975:

  Scenario #1 : Armageddon comes in 1975 - We the true prophets of Jehovah had foretold and forewarned all of mankind of this event.

  Scenario #2: Armageddon doesnt' come in 1975 - We never said Armageddon would come in 1975, many brothers speculated and are now disappointed by this but we warned you of speculation and your dedication to Christ should not depend on a date...blah blah blah

  You see Hector with this style of writing, they are covered regardless of the outcome. There's a name for this Hector and it's not called warm christian love, that's for sure.

  Now Hector I can admit that the statements which support your understanding of the matter were definately stated in the watchtower articles, Will you admitt that the watchtower also used strong wording that would convince any brother that Armageddon would arrive in 1975?
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  185

  Typical JW Apologist

  by TheStar in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .

  do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.

  yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.

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  TheStar

  Not only was Dutchie around in 1975 to hear it herself Hector but here are the watchtowers that prove it was the Governing Body that gave the brothers the idea that the end would come in 1975. Hello the bothers didn't make this up on their own. If anyone should know, you should that faithful brothers and sisters don't dare lift a finger unless it's stamped and sealed with the Governing Bodies approval.

  Here ya go Hector start with this Watchtower.

  *** Watchtower 1968 August 15 pp.494-501 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***
  

  Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?

  WHAT about all this talk concerning the year 1975? Lively discussions, some based on speculation, have burst into flame during recent months among serious students of the Bible. Their interest has been kindled by the belief that 1975 will mark the end of 6,000 years of human history since Adam's creation. The nearness of such an important date indeed fires the imagination and presents unlimited possibilities for discussion.

  ...

  29 After much of the mathematics and genealogies, really, of what benefit is this information to us today? Is it not all dead history, as uninteresting and profitless as walking through a cemetery copying old dates off tombstones? After all, why should we be any more interested in the date of Adam's creation than in the birth of King Tut? Well, for one thing, if 4,026 is added to 1,968 (allowing for the lack of a zero year between C.E. and B.C.E.) one gets a total of 5,993 years, come this autumn, since Adam's creation. That means, in the fall of the year 1975, a little over seven years from now (and not in 1997 as would be the case if Ussher's figures were correct), it will be 6,000 years since the creation of Adam, the father of all mankind!

  ADAM CREATED AT CLOSE OF "SIXTH DAY"

  30 Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man's existence coincides with the sabbathlike thousand-year reign of Christ. If these two periods run parallel with each other as to the calendar year, it will not be by mere chance or accident but will be according to Jehovah's loving and timely purposes. Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man's existence on earth. It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah's seventh creative "day." Why not? Because after his creation Adam lived some time during the "sixth day," which unknown amount of time would need to be subtracted from Adam's 930 years, to determine when the sixth seven-thousand-year period or "day" ended, and how long Adam lived into the "seventh day." And yet the end of that sixth creative "day" could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam's creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years.

  31 In regard to Adam's creation it is good to read carefully what the Bible says. Moses in compiling the book of Genesis referred to written records or "histories" that predated the Flood. The first of these begins with Genesis 1:1 and ends at Genesis 2:4 with the words, "This is the history of the heavens and the earth . . . " The second historical document begins with Genesis 2:5 and ends with Ge verse two of chapter five. Hence we have two separate accounts of creation from slightly different points of view. In the second of these accounts, in Genesis 2:19, the original Hebrew verb translated "was forming" is in the progressive imperfect form. This does not mean that the animals and birds were created after Adam was created. Genesis 1:20-28 shows it does not mean that. So, in order to avoid contradiction between Ge chapter one and chapter two, Genesis 2:19, 20 must be only a parenthetical remark thrown in to explain the need for creating a "helper" for man. So the progressive Hebrew verb form could also be rendered as "had been forming."-See Rotherham's translation (Ro), also Leeser's (Le).

  32 These two creation accounts in the book of Genesis, though differing slightly in the treatment of the material, are in perfect agreement with each other on all points, including the fact that Eve was created after Adam. So not until after this event did the sixth creative day come to an end. Exactly how soon after Adam's creation is not disclosed. "After that [Adam and Eve's creation] God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day." (Gen. 1:31) After the sixth creative day ends, the seventh one begins.

  33 This time between Adam's creation and the beginning of the seventh day, the day of rest, let it be noted, need not have been a long time. It could have been a rather short one. The naming of the animals by Adam, and his discovery that there was no complement for himself, required no great length of time. The animals were in subjection to Adam; they were peaceful; they came under God's leading; they were not needing to be chased down and caught. It took Noah only seven days to get the same kinds of animals, male and female, into the Ark. (Gen. 7:1-4) Eve's creation was quickly accomplished, 'while Adam was sleeping.' (Gen. 2:21) So the lapse of time between Adam's creation and the end of the sixth creative day, though unknown, was a comparatively short period of time. The pronouncement at the end of the sixth day, "God saw everything he had made and, look! it was very good," proves that the beginning of the great seventh day of the creative week did not wait until after Adam and Eve sinned and were expelled from the Garden of Eden.

  1975! . . . AND FAR BEYOND!

  34 Bible chronology is an interesting study by which historic events are placed in their order of occurrence along the stream of time. The Watch Tower Society over the years has endeavored to keep its associates abreast with the latest scholarship that proves consistent with historic and prophetic events recorded in the Scriptures. Major problems in sacred chronology have been straightened out either due to fulfillment of Bible prophecies or by reason of archaeological discoveries or because better Bible translations convey more clearly the records of the original languages. However, several knotty problems of chronology of a minor nature are not yet resolved. For example, at the time of the exodus from Egypt when Jehovah changed the beginning of the year from autumn time on the secular calendar to spring time on the sacred calendar, was there, in the Jewish calendar, a loss or a gain of six months?-Ex. 12:1, 2.

  35 One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man's existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that "concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father." (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the "day and hour"!

  36 Even if one cannot see beyond 1975, is this any reason to be less active? The apostles could not see even this far; they knew nothing about 1975. All they could see was a short time ahead in which to finish the work assigned to them. (1 Pet. 4:7) Hence, there was a ring of alarm and a cry of urgency in all their writings. (Acts 20:20; 2 Tim. 4:2) And rightly so. If they had delayed or dillydallied and had been complacent with the idea the end was some thousands of years off they would never have finished running the race set before them. No, they ran hard and they ran fast, and they won! It was a life or death matter with them.-1 Cor. 9:24; 2 Tim. 4:7; Heb. 12:1.

  37 So too with Jehovah's faithful witnesses in this latter half of the twentieth century. They have the true Christian point of view. Their strenuous evangelistic activity is not something peculiar to this present decade. They have not dedicated their lives to serve Jehovah only until 1975. Christians have been running this way ever since Christ Jesus blazed the trail and commanded his disciples. "Follow me!" So keep this same mental attitude in you that was in Christ Jesus. Let nothing slow you down or cause you to tire and give out. Those who will flee Babylon the Great and this Satanic system of things are now running for their lives, headed for God's kingdom, and they will not stop at 1975. O no! They will keep on in this glorious way that leads to everlasting life, praising and serving Jehovah for ever and ever!

  [Study Questions]

  ...

  37. So what will you be doing between now and 1975? And beyond that, what?

  [Emphasis Added]

  
  Tell me Hector, with these kind of Watchtowers and talks from the platform (and there were MANY, don't make me post them all),what brother or sister would not conclude that the Governing Body was telling them that the probability was VERY high that Armageddon would come in 1975?????
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  185

  Typical JW Apologist

  by TheStar in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this jw (like so many do) avoids discussing the real issues at hand and instead opts for: .

  do jehovah's witnesses have pedophiles in their mists?.

  yes but look at everyone else that does too and they're much worse.. i'm not even going to mention how badly he defends the un scandal, i'll let you read it yourself.. this guy has your typical "holier-than-thou" attitude.

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  TheStar

  The wheels on the bus go round and round....

  LOL@DB. Hey DB, It's clear as a bell, Hector says they are a "prophet" not a prophet. [8>]

  *** Watchtower 1982 October 1 p.26-27 Be as Men Who Are Facing Har-Magedon Unafraid ***

  7 Jeremiah was to perform the part of a full-grown man, for what his God inspired him to write was to be of importance to all mankind, even today. A “prophet to the nations” is what Jehovah made him. (Jeremiah 1:5) Now today, if anything, there needs to be a “prophet to the nations,” as patriotic self-willed nations are being inexorably gathered to an all-deciding showdown at Har–Magedon. Not that the God-given message of the modern “prophet to the nations” will be successful in turning them from a course that leads to their sure destruction, but there are human individuals involved. Such individuals without number, on being warned, would not want to perish with the nations of which they are citizens. If these can do anything about it, they do not want to be caught fighting against the Almighty God just in the interest of human self-government. In behalf of such right-hearted individuals Jehovah has considerately raised up his “prophet to the nations.” Jehovah has done this during this “time of the end,” since World War I ended on November 11, 1918.—Daniel 12:4.
  8 In behalf of such individuals who at heart seek God's rule instead of man's rule, the "prophet" whom Jehovah has raised up has been, not an individual man as in the case of Jeremiah, but a class. The members of this class are, like the prophet-priest Jeremiah, wholly dedicated to Jehovah God through Christ and, by the begettal of Jehovah's holy spirit, they have been made part of "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession."
  (1 Peter 2:9) At this late date there is a mere remnant of this “prophet” class yet on earth. The “war of the great day of God the Almighty” at Har–Magedon could not start before this composite “prophet” ends his work.

  [Emphasis Added]

  Jeremiah was a prophet to the nations and we are the modern day prophet to the nations but we are merely "prophets" and in no way claim to be a prophet like Jeremiah.

  See it's clear as a bell. [8>] Poor Hector it really isn't his fault, he's just doing what mommy said he should, defend his mommy regardless.
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  11

  Women say JWs downplay sex abuse

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  women say jehovah's witnesses downplay sex abuse.

  http://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/02/05/17601862.shtml?element_id=17601862.

  two middle tennessee women said they have a full understanding of a tullahoma woman's claim that the jehovah's witnesses organization has downplayed or ignored child sexual abuse for years.. ''in fact, nothing happened to the man who molested me,'' said melissa trice, 30, of spring hill, about an incident she says occurred in shelbyville 22 years ago.. ''one of the elders asked me, 'what were you wearing?

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  TheStar

  Thanks Randy for the article.

  Another nightmare of a story. It hurts my heart to hear what these two women have had to go through since childhood and I'm outtraged that the unamed woman's parents don't speak to her! She says they don't understand... What's to understand for crying out loud!!

  Hello your child was molested by another JW and nothing was done about it, of course she doesn't want anything to do with the dog-on religion!!

  How long will this continue I ask... How many more young children will have to suffer this way??????
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  29

  Gods has a body ???WT says so

  by mouthy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  may 15th watchtower 2002-i see where they say god has a body!!!!

  as well as a spirit-didnt i learn as a jw he was only spirit no body-.

  i guess the "body snatchers" must have returned the body--or do we have new light here??

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  TheStar

  Mouthy,

  No Problem, you are very welcomed. Anytime I can help, I'll be there. No new light in the article but we found lots of other interesting things like contridictions and illogical conclusions. Nothing new but they need to be pointed out for all to see.
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  29

  Gods has a body ???WT says so

  by mouthy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  may 15th watchtower 2002-i see where they say god has a body!!!!

  as well as a spirit-didnt i learn as a jw he was only spirit no body-.

  i guess the "body snatchers" must have returned the body--or do we have new light here??

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  TheStar

  Crownboy,

  It reminds me of a time when a dear friend of mine (who's husband is not a JW) told me one time that her husband's biggest beef with the WT, besides feeling some of their theology is wrong, is that "they try too hard to make things fit." At the time of course I was the dopy,faithful JW and didn't see how this was true.

  This is a perfect example of what he was talking about.

  Regarding my signature, If it wasn't in black in white I would have never believed it either... How far off they have strayed from what the religion was supposed to be.
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  29

  Gods has a body ???WT says so

  by mouthy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  may 15th watchtower 2002-i see where they say god has a body!!!!

  as well as a spirit-didnt i learn as a jw he was only spirit no body-.

  i guess the "body snatchers" must have returned the body--or do we have new light here??

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  TheStar

  I caught that too Nemesis.

  As I was transcribing it, I had to re-read that part. My first thought was "What the h**l? Why are they so blatantly contradicting themselves for all to clearly see?"

  Has the writing department always written this way? When I was active was I so blind (and/or stupid) as to not see contradictory statements like this in other articles?
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  29

  Gods has a body ???WT says so

  by mouthy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  may 15th watchtower 2002-i see where they say god has a body!!!!

  as well as a spirit-didnt i learn as a jw he was only spirit no body-.

  i guess the "body snatchers" must have returned the body--or do we have new light here??

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  TheStar

  My scanner is on the brinks right now but I will type the whole subtopic.

  Watchtower May 15, 2002 Page 4

  Who is God?

  An Impersonal Force or a Real Person?

  Many who believe in God think of him as a force, not as a person. In certain cultures, for example, gods have been identified with the forces of nature. Some who have examined evidence gathered through scientific research into the structure of the universe and the nature of life on earth have concluded that there has to be a First Cause. Nevertheless, they hesitate to attach a personality to the Cause.

  Yet, does not the complexity of creation indicate that the First Cause must have had great intelligence? Intelligence requires a mind. The great mind responsible for all creation belongs to the person of God. Yes, God has a body, not a physical one like ours, but a spiritual body. “If there is a physical body, “ says the Bible, “there is a spiritual one.”(1 Corinthians 14:44) Explaining the nature of God, the Bible clearly states: “God is a Spirit.”(John 4:24) A spirit has a form of life that differs greatly from ours, and it is invisible to human eyes. (John 1:18) There are invisible spirit creatures as well. They are angels – “the sons of the true God.” – Job 1:6,2:1.

  Since God is an uncreated person with a spiritual body, he logically has a place of residence. Referring to the spirit realm, the Bible tells us that the heavens are God’s “established place of dwelling.”(1 Kings 8:43) Also, the Bible writer Paul states: ‘Christ entered into heaven itself to appear before the person of God for us.’ – Hebrews 9:24

  The word “Spirit” is also used in the Bible in another sense. Addressing God in prayer, the psalmist said: “If you send forth your spirit, they are created.” (Psalm 104:30) This spirit is not God himself but a force that God sends forth, or uses, to accomplish whatever he wishes. By means of it, God created the physical heavens, the earth, and all living things. (Genesis 1:2; Psalm 33:6) His spirit is called holy spirit. God used his holy spirit to inspire the men who wrote the Bible. (2 Peter 1:20,21) Hence, the holy spirit is the invisible active force that God uses to fulfill his purposes.
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  21

  UADNA Announcement? (non-member)

  by out4good3 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some time ago i briefly remember a thread that implied that there would be a big announcement coming from this organization?

  something that would blow the wt out of the water.. still waiting patiently, or was this all a ruse?.

  did i miss something here.

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  TheStar

  Yerusalyim,

  Hold Up!!

  Out4good is innocently inquiring, as I did a few months back.

  We're "newbies" that haven't been around this board for years and years like some of you and thus were left in the dark about the whole thing.